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Check out these Jump Wings


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#1 CorsairAce

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 04:48 PM

A few weeks back I picked up a large box of items which I am still sorting. What do you think about these jump wings? They are marked sterling on the back but the front service is completly smooth and very worn. There are 3 battle stars as well as an invasion arrowheard. The clutches are the older type.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/corsairace/DSCF4288.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/corsairace/DSCF4290.jpg

#2 Gil Sanow

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 04:53 PM

A few weeks back I picked up a large box of items which I am still sorting. What do you think about these jump wings? They are marked sterling on the back but the front service is completly smooth and very worn. There are 3 battle stars as well as an invasion arrowheard. The clutches are the older type.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/corsairace/DSCF4288.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/corsairace/DSCF4290.jpg


I am told that some paratroopers polished their wings smooth to draw attention to them. I do have an example on a uniform I can post if you like. I am not sure if this was limited practice in any specific unit or not. (Mine is on an 82nd Abn Div HQ Co jacket.)

I don't recall ever seeing an assault arrowhead on jump wings before.

G

#3 Brig

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 05:09 PM

I'm not sure if the arrow head is a myth or not. We need an expert to jump in about it

#4 CorsairAce

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 05:37 PM

Gil, Please post a picture that would be great.
Looking closer I can see it was made my NS Meyer.

#5 101combatvet

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 08:03 PM

The wings appear to be post war.... the hardware and polish was more an individuals choice. http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

#6 Jeeper704

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 09:57 PM

Jump wings with an arrowhead do exist.
If I'm not mistaken there is one in one of DeTrez' books.

Erwin

#7 Brig

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 05:47 AM

yes, but was it regulation or a private practice?

#8 101combatvet

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 06:42 AM

individuals choice.


yes, but was it regulation or a private practice?



#9 CorsairAce

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 08:15 AM

Why do you say they are post war?

#10 101combatvet

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 11:12 AM

Odds are stacked against it.... clutch back jump wings really weren't avaliable until after the war.

Why do you say they are post war?



#11 Gary Cain

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 11:51 AM

That is not exactly true. Clutch backs were available starting about mid 44. I need better photo's though to make a statement on these. The arrowhead looks to be a later pattern but the image is too fuzzy to make it out 100%.


Gary

Odds are stacked against it.... clutch back jump wings really weren't avaliable until after the war.



#12 101combatvet

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 12:28 PM

That is not exactly true. Clutch backs were available starting about mid 44. I need better photo's though to make a statement on these. The arrowhead looks to be a later pattern but the image is too fuzzy to make it out 100%.
Gary


Intresting.... clutch backs go back to I think the 30's but I have never seen proof of an actual jump wing that had them during the war. I think that they could have been special ordered or modified. I have several that were modified during the war and during the post war period these started out as straight pin wings. The earliest clutch back jump wing I have was probably purchased in 1946-47... got that from the vet. So if you have proof otherwise I'd like to see it.

#13 Michiel M.

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 12:54 PM

I believe if the Clutches are so called 'Snowflakes' (smooth back) they're WWII..

Edited by Michiel M., 23 August 2007 - 12:55 PM.


#14 Gary Cain

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 02:56 PM

My wifes grandfather Lou Verive of the HQ Co. 506th PIR was issued the standard pin back variety when he graduated but bought two additional wings (both of which are clutchback) as spares in '44 after the Normandy jump, one of which he gave to my wifes grandmother (whom he later married and brought back to the US) when on a date in Joigny while on R&R. He served all through the war as a bazooka man for the company and mustered out in 1947. We still have all of his insignia and documents and he is still alive in Palm Springs http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif and doing quite well at 89!

Gary

Intresting.... clutch backs go back to I think the 30's but I have never seen proof of an actual jump wing that had them during the war. I think that they could have been special ordered or modified. I have several that were modified during the war and during the post war period these started out as straight pin wings. The earliest clutch back jump wing I have was probably purchased in 1946-47... got that from the vet. So if you have proof otherwise I'd like to see it.



#15 101combatvet

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 03:09 PM

Can you post clean scans front and back? I'd like to see these.


My wifes grandfather Lou Verive of the HQ Co. 506th PIR was issued the standard pin back variety when he graduated but bought two additional wings (both of which are clutchback) as spares in '44 after the Normandy jump, one of which he gave to my wifes grandmother (whom he later married and brought back to the US) when on a date in Joigny while on R&R. He served all through the war as a bazooka man for the company and mustered out in 1947. We still have all of his insignia and documents and he is still alive in Palm Springs http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif and doing quite well at 89!

Gary


Edited by 101combatvet, 23 August 2007 - 03:09 PM.


#16 kfields

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 03:35 PM

I guess I'll chime in. Here's a jump wing that belonged to Roy Barger of the 508PIR from WW2. He died BEFORE I got these so I had no chance to quiz him about them. Because of the type maker mark, I've been told they date to sometime during the war.
MVC_463S.JPG
MVC_465S.JPG

#17 101combatvet

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 03:54 PM

Maybe, the problem is that this company made them post war also.... I have a set with the same prongs but unmarked.... I'm not really convinced that they are WW2. I have a grouping from a 17th guy and he was still ordering insignia post war. http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif

I guess I'll chime in. Here's a jump wing that belonged to Roy Barger of the 508PIR from WW2. He died BEFORE I got these so I had no chance to quiz him about them. Because of the type maker mark, I've been told they date to sometime during the war.
MVC_463S.JPG
MVC_465S.JPG



#18 Gary Cain

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 04:24 PM

Yes, but you'll have to wait till Christmas when we go down to visit with him. I am taking my camera down so will take as many pictures as I can. Here is his wedding photo from Joigny circa Sept 1944.

Can you post clean scans front and back? I'd like to see these.

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  • MVC_060F.JPG

Edited by Gary Cain, 23 August 2007 - 04:35 PM.


#19 Gary Cain

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 04:36 PM

and a closeup

Yes, but you'll have to wait till Christmas when we go down to visit with him. I am taking my camera down so will take as many pictures as I can. Here is his wedding photo from Joigny circa Sept 1944.

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  • MVC_061F.JPG


#20 101combatvet

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 04:42 PM

Sounds good.... I'm waiting. Also, are you certain about the date for the above picture?

Edited by 101combatvet, 23 August 2007 - 04:44 PM.


#21 Gary Cain

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 04:44 PM

This is a WWII set of Jump Wings. The way you tell is by the way the prongs are soldered to the wing. Here is the way a post 1950 set of prongs is done. As you can see the "pad" is clear of solder. They came up with a much cleaner way of doing it post 1948, I don't know the exact date that they did, but all of the insignia was done this way post 1950 for sure. Now you may ask 'what about the stuff issued in 1946'?...it was the same as that issued for 1945 and earlier. In fact they were still issuing WWII jump wings as late as 1951 when they finally ran out of old stock.

Maybe, the problem is that this company made them post war also.... I have a set with the same prongs but unmarked.... I'm not really convinced that they are WW2. I have a grouping from a 17th guy and he was still ordering insignia post war. http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif

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  • MVC_062F.JPG

Edited by Gary Cain, 23 August 2007 - 04:46 PM.


#22 Gil Sanow

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 04:48 PM

I am told that some paratroopers polished their wings smooth to draw attention to them. I do have an example on a uniform I can post if you like. I am not sure if this was limited practice in any specific unit or not. (Mine is on an 82nd Abn Div HQ Co jacket.)

I don't recall ever seeing an assault arrowhead on jump wings before.

G


Well, I lied. The ones I have are not all that highly polished -- I guess those are gone from the collection. I do have a pair I believe are wartime -- hollowbacked marked sterling with smooth silver clutches AND customized by separating the wings from the chute. Verrrrrry interesting!

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#23 Gary Cain

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 04:49 PM

It was while they were waiting to be shipped back home so I think I made a mistake on the date for the picture, this was taken in 1946 in Joigny before he left for the States. They met in '44, in Joigny, while on R&R. Sorry about the confusion.

Sounds good.... I'm waiting. Also, are you certain about the date for the above picture?



#24 APO472

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 01:41 PM

It was while they were waiting to be shipped back home so I think I made a mistake on the date for the picture, this was taken in 1946 in Joigny before he left for the States. They met in '44, in Joigny, while on R&R. Sorry about the confusion.


Gary it would have to be Joigny in 1945. The 101st did not get there until late summer/fall of 1945. They were in Mourmelon for a brief period (about three weeks) when they were dispatched for Bastogne (Battle of the Bulge). It is possible, but highly unlikely that he went on leave while at Mourmelon as passes were quite scarce and a majority of those who did receive them tended to head to Paris (transportation was orchestrated by the Division).

I must say that I have obtained close to 3 dozen 506th Veteran obtained jump wings and all are pin-backs. The only clutch back Veteran obtained wing I received was from a 3 & HQ/506th man who stayed in and made Senior parachutist and he picked these up post war. I also have his WWII wing with one combat star. As for arrowheads & combat stars, yes they were used by the men in the 101st (and yes I know 82nd but this is not my cup of tea). There were no regulations prohibiting them but there use was not as wide spread as one may think (and certainly not as prevalent as one sees offered for sale these days). I will try to post some pics of ID'd direct Veteran obtained wings this weekend if it will help.

By the way Gary very nice picture and looking at it again it has to be 1945. The white shroud boot laces are the give away. Also, I have your man Lou Verive (ASN XXXX024X) as being in HQ 3/506th (3rd Battalion Headquarters Company of the 506th and not Regimental Headquarters Company). I hope this helps.

Currahee!

Jake Powers

Edited by APO472, 24 August 2007 - 01:47 PM.


#25 kfields

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 03:21 AM

I also have Roy Bargers photo album from the war and there are quite a few photos of men in dress uniform. Here's one where you can see some better detail. This is Bob Watts of the 508th I presume with his jump wings and star on the shroud and with what looks like a British style ribbon bar:
MVC_466S.JPG
MVC_467S.JPG

Edited by kfields, 25 August 2007 - 03:23 AM.



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