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K.G. Luke Collar Emblems


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#1 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 10:12 AM

While certainly not the rarest of EGA’s collected today, no collection would be considered complete without this set. These were manufactured in Australia by a well-known maker of military accoutrement’s K.G. Luke in Melbourne, for the First Marine Division after the battle for Guadalcanal. While in Australia for retrofit, the Australian Battle Jacket was born, and these were common in use with the Fifth. There is no evidence a Barracks cover emblem was ever made.

The hemisphere of these emblems do have a very light stempling texture. The variations include a few different hallmarks types as well as applied continents’ and those without. I have not seen any with screw back, all (I have ever seen) have the “C pin back” for mounting on the collar.

It would be great for those who do have these with a different hallmarking, get a picture up on the forum, in order for us to have a complete sampling. This set is from my collection and while I have seen other hallmark variations, do not have at this time any photos of such. As well as, those without applied continents.

Attached Images

  • K.C._Luke_MELB_003.jpg
  • K.C._Luke_MELB_005.jpg
  • K.C._Luke_MELB_008.jpg

Edited by Brig, 23 October 2010 - 11:49 AM.


#2 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 05:05 PM

Very nice matched pair, Darrell. A slightly different KG LUKE hallmark with MELB. for Melbourne missing. While any Luke USMC emblems can be considered scarce, the KG LUKE only hallmark seems almost impossible to find. I've been looking for a matched mate to this example for 20 years now with no success.

I do agree with Darrell's statement that while the Luke firm did make the large Army and Navy emblems for the visor cap, it doesn't appear they made any for the Marine Barracks cover.

Gary

Attached Images

  • usmc_luke_fr.jpg
  • usmc_luke_rev.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:53 AM.


#3 Brig

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 08:08 PM

one with 'etched' continents that sold on eBay awhile back...

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  • M1937_Service_Collar_KG_Luke_Melbourn.jpg


#4 Brig

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 12:52 PM

some really nice pieces posted. still searching for one myself for my collection, the enlisted piece reached around 300 and I was outbid

#5 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 08:37 AM

Appears this one may go over the top? At this price I would be tempted to sell mine ;)

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

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  • KC_Luke.jpg

Edited by Forum Support, 01 October 2007 - 08:41 AM.


#6 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 09:52 AM

... these end the auction @$535... http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/pinch.gif

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#7 Jeremiah

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 06:48 AM

Damn, I'm glad I've managed to get a set of these already! I despair somewhat for all the patterns I still want but don't have. Shame............ http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/dunno.gif

#8 Gary Cain

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 08:26 PM

I just recently picked this up and wanted to share with you. The KG Luke is much better struck so that people can get a better idea of what the mark looks like.


Cheers
Gary

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  • front.JPG


#9 Gary Cain

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 08:26 PM

2

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Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:35 AM.
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#10 Gary Cain

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 08:27 PM

3

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Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:35 AM.
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#11 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 03:17 PM

Hi Gary,

Wow, a very unusual Luke emblem! Unless your photos or my eyes are lying, this is the first time I have seen a Luke emblem in silver metal. You know that we're going to have 101 questions on this emblem, don't you? Can you tell us where this one came from? Was it out of a vet's estate or a store walk-in, show, etc..? There are a few things when comparing this to the Luke USMC bronze emblems that fill me with questions. This is the first time I have seen the Luke hallmark offset like that and it seems very out of character for that firm. Whether it be USMC, Army or AAF, the Luke hallmarks I have seen have always seemed to be precise, centered and dead-on, so this one bothers me somewhat. There are also other differences when comparing your photo to my bronze Lukes that seem different or odd as well. Would it be possible for you to photograph (both front and back) this emblem next to the bronze beauty that walked into your shop last year? Is this one the same size as your bronze Luke? One last question? I'm trying to figure out why Luke used silver metal, so any ideas what metal this emblem is made from?

Gary

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:35 AM.
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#12 Gary Cain

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 04:55 PM

Hi Gary,

No problem. The EGA was found at the Alameda Point Flea market. Price paid was $5 and the sellor was a vintage jewelry dealer. As far as the Luke marking being offset, that is not a big deal, I have around 40 pieces from them and there is wide variation in where the makers mark is located. It is the same size as the walk in and as for the silver metal, I have no idea! It is the first I have seen as well! Here are the pictures you requested.

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  • front.JPG

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:37 AM.


#13 Gary Cain

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 04:56 PM

The one thing that I do find intersting is the full Melbourne is used instead of Melb. Which is normal. I am wondering if it is a Sweetheart pin or something similar? The font for the letters is exactly the same in both shape and size including teh "receding E" as I call it where the legs of the letter E get smaller from top to bottom, something I have not seen on any other makers mark.

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  • back.JPG

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:37 AM.
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#14 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 07:13 AM

Hi Gary, well needless to say this find caught me flatfooted so to speak. Not being the typical "Doubting Thomas" type, I am struggling to get my hands around the idea that this firm would produce this particular emblem in the "fit & finish" we see here. Having seen a few color insignia of similar shiny metal finish, its entirely conceivable this emblem would have been some type of prototype, yet to show up in an Atlanta flea market some 50 years later? Aside from the comments from GLM, regarding the hallmark and metal, its is the lack of stempling, applied Continent & the "fit & finish" that makes this discovery defies the rule of thumb we have all accepted. http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif s/f Darrell

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:38 AM.
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#15 Gary Cain

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 01:20 PM

Hi Darrell,


The flea market where it was found is in the San Francisco bay area. I have found tons of Aussie made insignia here. Wallace Bishop, Angus&Coote, Rood&Co., and of course K.G. Luke. When I bought it I was of the opinion that it might be a sweetheart piece and not a regulation piece of insignia. However I do believe it to be from them and not a recent piece. As I said before, under 20X magnification the letters used in the makers mark are the same and to the best of my knowledge no reproduction of this type of insignia has begun(though the Glider and Pilots wings I have seen reproduced with a laser doing the engraving and maker marks, I first spotted those at a Pomona Show a year or two ago) so if viewed as a sweetheart I think there is no real issue. If someone were to represent it as a pice of insignia though, I too would have a couple of issues. I will be doing some more research into it though just because I am intrigued by it.


Cheers
Gary

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:38 AM.
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#16 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 02:12 PM

Hi Gary,

Our son lives in the Bay Area and has been telling us about some of the antique shows out there. Guess we need to visit him more! The only drawback to the "sweetheart" theory is that it is a starboard or right side emblem. Every sweetheart piece I have ever seen has been for the port or left side, as should be. Sweetheart EGA's should always have the anchor facing left as in the Marine Corps seal. With that said, and from your photos, this new emblem does appear to be stamped, not cast and identical to the bronze emblem. From the photos, it certainly looks like the way a Luke should be made. BTW - I did have a Luke made Army Nurse emblem that had Melbourne spelled out completely and, because of the source, I know that one was good. The offset stamping of the HM bothered me, but if you say that is normal for Luke insignia, it's just bonus knowledge for me! I respect your knowledge and expertise in metal insignia, especially Commonwealth made insignia, so if your gut feelings tell you this is made by or like other Luke insignia you have, there must be some explanation for it. Can you tell me if there are any traces or signs of a gold wash to the continents or anchor? While I have never seen, or even heard of dress emblems made by Luke for the Marines, I'm wondering if this emblem might not have been from a set for the dress uniform? Many of the US makers used gold wash during WWII that rubbed off with a few polishings, so why not Luke? To other EGA collectors, this might be a farfetched theory, but until this type of emblem either floods the market in the future, or pops up in a veterans attributed estate, I'll respect your judgement call on it. It would be nice if someone came up with a wartime Luke sample board or catalog, and an emblem like this was on it, wouldn't it?

Gary

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:43 AM.
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#17 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 02:35 PM

Gary,

One more quick question while I'm thinking of it. Is the loop catch opening facing up like other Luke emblems or down like US made insignia? Thanks!

Gary

#18 Gary Cain

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 02:37 PM

Hello again!


Here is the Luke insignia I have that is not on uniforms. There are 40 pieces on the cards and I have another 12 pieces on uniforms. Out of all 52 pieces(I just went through them all!) three have Melbourne completely spelled out. One is a Majors insignia, one is a MP collar insignia, and the last is the Ordnance insignia. Interestingly the Cap badges are both marked differently and one is marked Melb. but Australia is spelled out, the other has no Australia and it is just Melb.

I do need to correct one mis-statement however, the continents are indeed seperately applied(second picture), but I could find no evidence of gold on the insignia, though when I put it under 40X magnification I could see evidence of the stippling they put on jewelry for plating. It is very faint but it is there so maybe you are right and this is dress insignia.

BTW if you ever find your way out here I will be happy to take you on a tour of the various flea markets! I live 4.5 hours from teh Alameda Flea Market and try to get to it every 1st Sunday of the month. You just have to get there REALLLLLY early to get the good stuff!

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  • K.G.Luke_insignia.JPG

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:45 AM.
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#19 Gary Cain

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 02:37 PM

2

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  • continent_detail.JPG

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:45 AM.
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#20 Jeremiah

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 02:43 PM

As a note, my service officer collar Luke emblem for the same side has the catch facing the same way.

#21 Gary Cain

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 02:44 PM

Hi Gary,

It's the same as all the other Luke insignia I have.


Cheers
Gary

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:46 AM.
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#22 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 03:26 PM

Super collection of Lukes, Gary! How many of them are completely devoid of MELB., MELBOURNE or AUSTRALIA in the hallmark? Here's a single emblem I own that simply states K.G. LUKE. I guess that firm used many different variations in their hallmarks.

I've noticed a particular trait on Luke emblem loop catches on the ones I have seen as having the opening on the top, where the pin falls in from the top, not the bottom (US style). I see that the new EGA has it in the US style with opening on the bottom. With you being the forum champion for Luke insignia (smile), do any of the other pieces you own have the loop as a bottom catch?

Jeremiah, did you say yours have the bottom opening loop catches?

Gary

Attached Images

  • usmc_luke_rev.jpg
  • usmc_luke_fr.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:46 AM.
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#23 Jeremiah

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 03:33 PM

I have 3 Gary, a collar set and a garrison cover bird. The two "port" side birds open up while the "starboard" or odd side opens down like the one being discussed.

#24 Gary Cain

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 03:38 PM

Hello again!


Yours is the first I have seen with no Melb. or Melbourne. I only have the one cap badge that has Australia. As for the catches, they all open the exact same way irregardless of "side". When I hold the cards up to see them from the side, they all match including the new one.


Cheers
Gary

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:47 AM.
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#25 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 02:02 PM

Jeremiah,

Just as I suspected! No rhyme or reasoning behind how the catches were applied. I believe one of Gary's "port" side emblems is down, so maybe just something simple like craftman's preference?

Here is another single K.G. LUKE with MELBOURNE spelled out like the one Gary posted. This emblem ended at $210 a couple of nights ago on eBay. I do see some very close similarities to this emblem and the one Gary just picked up in Alameda.

s/f, Gary

Attached Images

  • EGALukeEagleFrontWhole.jpg
  • EGALukeEagleRearWholePinClosed.jpg
  • EGALukeEagleRearDetail.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 15 March 2008 - 05:47 AM.
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