Jump to content


Photo

Pineapple grenade fuze washer debate solved.


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 917601

917601
  • Members
    • Member ID: 180,924
  • 1,102 posts

Posted 24 September 2019 - 11:08 AM

While entering the grenade collecting field I had always read " on the Internet" about the fabled fuze sealing red washer. I checked my MK 2 grenades and none to be found, except for one that has the rarer short spoon and cutback fuze body. While reading TM9-1904, dated 1944, page 238, I finally found the documented answer. The composite sealing washer was used only on the early M10 fuze, discontinued on the M10A2,and M10A3 fuze. Unfortunately, the screen shot will not upload.

Edited by 917601, 24 September 2019 - 11:11 AM.


#2 917601

917601
  • Members
    • Member ID: 180,924
  • 1,102 posts

Posted 24 September 2019 - 11:18 AM

I recommend to all WW2 ordnance collectors to review TM 9-1904 dated 1944 for much detailed information. Their section on grenades is a must for all collectors. It can be found here: http://www.easy39th...._Guide_1944.pdf

#3 jmd62

jmd62
  • Members
    • Member ID: 159,199
  • 381 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 September 2019 - 11:41 AM

Great info, thanks!



#4 Persian Gulf Command

Persian Gulf Command
  • Members
    • Member ID: 17,994
  • 1,002 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 September 2019 - 04:48 PM

I just need to mention that I do possess several WW2 era Mk2 Grenades that have the red fiber washer on the bouchon.  I also have some w/o washers.  

 

I will also add that all the pre-WW2 Mk2's I have with washers, the washers are a gray or dark gray color.

 

I might speculate that the grenades we have in our collections were surplus and most have burned off fuses or fuses that never had an igniter inserted, so the need to have a moisture seal was redundant.  It would be interesting to know if live pre-1944 grenades are seen with the washers or not. 


Edited by Persian Gulf Command, 24 September 2019 - 04:51 PM.


#5 colt thompson

colt thompson
  • Members
    • Member ID: 15,691
  • 36 posts

Posted 25 September 2019 - 07:02 AM

Great information. I need to review my US grenades and see what , if any, washers are present.



#6 doyler

doyler
  • Members
    • Member ID: 342
  • 33,847 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Under The Bridge

Posted 25 September 2019 - 08:18 AM


This one has a fiber washer but a little hard to see.I have others with and with out as well.

http://www.usmilitar...de#entry2303490

#7 doyler

doyler
  • Members
    • Member ID: 342
  • 33,847 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Under The Bridge

Posted 25 September 2019 - 08:34 AM

post-342-1215751098.jpg

#8 Kaptainssurplus

Kaptainssurplus
  • Members
    • Member ID: 224,381
  • 52 posts

Posted 25 September 2019 - 11:27 AM

To add what has been said, I have NOS mint examples of many different fuzes that have fiber washers, including M10s up to A2 but never seen a A3 with one but dosen't mean there isn't one. I know some MK2A1s in VN had fiber washers as well. There are at least 6 types of washers I have seen used, with 2 or 3 variants of red. Also I have seen some type of tar sealed/sealant used as well. Even during VN red washers were used on many types of grenades including the M18s. Currently there are blueish color washers being used along with rubber, copper, and steel.

#9 917601

917601
  • Members
    • Member ID: 180,924
  • 1,102 posts

Posted 25 September 2019 - 12:25 PM

attachicon.gif post-342-1215751098.jpg

Thanks for posting. Sealing washers hard to find, but your unused, green sealant M10 fuze train the real gem....and I thought I was the only one with a WW2 M10A3 example....can you tell us what fuze model is on your example? ...M10A3 or more likely an M10A2?

#10 917601

917601
  • Members
    • Member ID: 180,924
  • 1,102 posts

Posted 25 September 2019 - 12:38 PM

To add what has been said, I have NOS mint examples of many different fuzes that have fiber washers, including M10s up to A2 but never seen a A3 with one but dosen't mean there isn't one. I know some MK2A1s in VN had fiber washers as well. There are at least 6 types of washers I have seen used, with 2 or 3 variants of red. Also I have seen some type of tar sealed/sealant used as well. Even during VN red washers were used on many types of grenades including the M18s. Currently there are blueish color washers being used along with rubber, copper, and steel.

Thanks for posting, the 1944 TM states no certain color, only Fibre or composite washer. The ones I have are tan , dark brown in color.Your comments interesting. As the M10A3 due to design changes did not require one, but as I have learned there are no " rules" in WW2 era grenades, war time expediency, manufacturer differences, frequent TM and directive changes took time to put into production and dispersal, and once in the field never complied with due to field restraints. Very interesting and authoritive information being posted, thanks.

Edited by 917601, 25 September 2019 - 12:45 PM.


#11 Kaptainssurplus

Kaptainssurplus
  • Members
    • Member ID: 224,381
  • 52 posts

Posted 30 September 2019 - 06:00 PM

Yeah I have brown and tan color washers as well, as you said, for the early fuzes (ww2 era). As you know and stated there wasn't really any standard per say when it came to washers, it seems some did, some didn't. I would guess maybe more Pacific theater would have them for the adverse wet weather, but that is just a guess. When I acquire new fuzes of grenades I always check the washers but as you know there is no why to know for sure, as stuff gets mismatched over time. Thats why when I get NOS sealed stuff it's always exciting to see what really came on them but even then it's not always 100% the same across the board. It would actually be cool to get a thread put together with pics of all types of US washers and where some were found and on which fuze it was on.

#12 Persian Gulf Command

Persian Gulf Command
  • Members
    • Member ID: 17,994
  • 1,002 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 October 2019 - 07:24 AM

I wanted to add this to the discusion.  I recently picked up a green grenade w/ plugged bottom.  I'll be posting it later today.  The fuse that came with it has a M10A3 lever with what appears to be the residue of a black (tar) sealant at the base of the Bouchon.  This may explain the discontinuation of the washer while still needing a seal to keep moisture out of the grenade.

 

Pictures: 1 & 2 of 3  

Attached Images

  • PA190193.JPG
  • PA190194.JPG

Edited by Persian Gulf Command, 19 October 2019 - 07:26 AM.


#13 Persian Gulf Command

Persian Gulf Command
  • Members
    • Member ID: 17,994
  • 1,002 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 October 2019 - 07:25 AM

3 of 3

Attached Images

  • PA190195.JPG


#14 917601

917601
  • Members
    • Member ID: 180,924
  • 1,102 posts

Posted 19 October 2019 - 07:54 AM

I wanted to add this to the discusion.  I recently picked up a green grenade w/ plugged bottom.  I'll be posting it later today.  The fuse that came with it has a M10A3 lever with what appears to be the residue of a black (tar) sealant at the base of the Bouchon.  This may explain the discontinuation of the washer while still needing a seal to keep moisture out of the grenade.
 
Pictures: 1 & 2 of 3  

The TM 1901 ( 1944) mentions a fuze modification was used to do away with sealing washers. I have a different possible explanation. Two of my grenades have discoloration ( heat ?) and residue gunk where the body and fuze meet, they also " rattle", having pieces of a blown ignitor fuze inside them. I do recall GI's would deactivate grenades by shaking out the EC blank powder ( grenade filler) , then loosely screwing the fuze assembly back on, ( one turn or two) pulling the pin and blowing the blackpowder fuze train inside the grenade. Being loosely screwed on the hot air and smoke would vent out the loosely threaded fuze base, often leaving parts of the fuze train inside. Those examples are what I consider " the real deal" and most valued. Sure, the yellow band and paint is discolored, but 100 percent GI authentic...to many grenades have had fuze assemblies switched by collectors, while still correct, not a " rock solid " bring back.

#15 917601

917601
  • Members
    • Member ID: 180,924
  • 1,102 posts

Posted 19 October 2019 - 08:28 AM

Notice page 238,TM 9-1904 mentions no longer using a sealing washer with the M10A2. Interesting also is the fuze train length reduction, change, etc...unable to post due to upload size, but that section is worth referencing if you have a MK 2 grenade, want to ID a grenade, want to buy a grenade, or sell a grenade. Maybe someone can take time to post it, I have little patience with using resizers that do not work.

#16 collector

collector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,414
  • 886 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern California

Posted 05 November 2019 - 12:00 PM

Have an RFX from the 50s I got at Quantico as a kid that has the washer.



#17 917601

917601
  • Members
    • Member ID: 180,924
  • 1,102 posts

Posted 05 November 2019 - 01:04 PM

Have an RFX from the 50s I got at Quantico as a kid that has the washer.

Thanks for the reply. I also have a few training grenades ( M205 fuzes) that have washers. No idea why. The problem with grenades is fuzes have been added, switched, removed in the collector chain. I will have to check TM's on trainers to see what was dictated, but as in the world of grenades, there are no rules. The greatest fallacy is the M200 was not correct, however, a collector, metal detector in Belgium has unearthed, dug up, ( brave soul) many M200 marked spoons on frags.

#18 collector

collector
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,414
  • 886 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern California

Posted 09 November 2019 - 07:38 AM

Thanks for the reply. I also have a few training grenades ( M205 fuzes) that have washers. No idea why. The problem with grenades is fuzes have been added, switched, removed in the collector chain. I will have to check TM's on trainers to see what was dictated, but as in the world of grenades, there are no rules. The greatest fallacy is the M200 was not correct, however, a collector, metal detector in Belgium has unearthed, dug up, ( brave soul) many M200 marked spoons on frags.

 

I can tell you that mine is not messed with. There was a small dump going into the river with a chain link fence around it. During low tide it was easy to wade around the dump and get cool stuff. Quantico was great for a kid in the 50's and very early 60's! We would also bike out and sneak into the tank park and grab machine gun belts (blanks) and run.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users