Jump to content

Pineapple grenade fuze washer debate solved.


Recommended Posts

While entering the grenade collecting field I had always read " on the Internet" about the fabled fuze sealing red washer. I checked my MK 2 grenades and none to be found, except for one that has the rarer short spoon and cutback fuze body. While reading TM9-1904, dated 1944, page 238, I finally found the documented answer. The composite sealing washer was used only on the early M10 fuze, discontinued on the M10A2,and M10A3 fuze. Unfortunately, the screen shot will not upload.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just need to mention that I do possess several WW2 era Mk2 Grenades that have the red fiber washer on the bouchon. I also have some w/o washers.

 

I will also add that all the pre-WW2 Mk2's I have with washers, the washers are a gray or dark gray color.

 

I might speculate that the grenades we have in our collections were surplus and most have burned off fuses or fuses that never had an igniter inserted, so the need to have a moisture seal was redundant. It would be interesting to know if live pre-1944 grenades are seen with the washers or not.

donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif





Link to post
Share on other sites

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





Link to post
Share on other sites
post-342-0-65744800-1569429208_thumb.jpg

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





Link to post
Share on other sites

To add what has been said, I have NOS mint examples of many different fuzes that have fiber washers, including M10s up to A2 but never seen a A3 with one but dosen't mean there isn't one. I know some MK2A1s in VN had fiber washers as well. There are at least 6 types of washers I have seen used, with 2 or 3 variants of red. Also I have seen some type of tar sealed/sealant used as well. Even during VN red washers were used on many types of grenades including the M18s. Currently there are blueish color washers being used along with rubber, copper, and steel.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To add what has been said, I have NOS mint examples of many different fuzes that have fiber washers, including M10s up to A2 but never seen a A3 with one but dosen't mean there isn't one. I know some MK2A1s in VN had fiber washers as well. There are at least 6 types of washers I have seen used, with 2 or 3 variants of red. Also I have seen some type of tar sealed/sealant used as well. Even during VN red washers were used on many types of grenades including the M18s. Currently there are blueish color washers being used along with rubber, copper, and steel.

Thanks for posting, the 1944 TM states no certain color, only Fibre or composite washer. The ones I have are tan , dark brown in color.Your comments interesting. As the M10A3 due to design changes did not require one, but as I have learned there are no " rules" in WW2 era grenades, war time expediency, manufacturer differences, frequent TM and directive changes took time to put into production and dispersal, and once in the field never complied with due to field restraints. Very interesting and authoritive information being posted, thanks.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I have brown and tan color washers as well, as you said, for the early fuzes (ww2 era). As you know and stated there wasn't really any standard per say when it came to washers, it seems some did, some didn't. I would guess maybe more Pacific theater would have them for the adverse wet weather, but that is just a guess. When I acquire new fuzes of grenades I always check the washers but as you know there is no why to know for sure, as stuff gets mismatched over time. Thats why when I get NOS sealed stuff it's always exciting to see what really came on them but even then it's not always 100% the same across the board. It would actually be cool to get a thread put together with pics of all types of US washers and where some were found and on which fuze it was on.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

I wanted to add this to the discusion. I recently picked up a green grenade w/ plugged bottom. I'll be posting it later today. The fuse that came with it has a M10A3 lever with what appears to be the residue of a black (tar) sealant at the base of the Bouchon. This may explain the discontinuation of the washer while still needing a seal to keep moisture out of the grenade.

 

Pictures: 1 & 2 of 3

post-17994-0-54560700-1571498604.jpg

post-17994-0-80022000-1571498618.jpg

donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif





Link to post
Share on other sites

I wanted to add this to the discusion. I recently picked up a green grenade w/ plugged bottom. I'll be posting it later today. The fuse that came with it has a M10A3 lever with what appears to be the residue of a black (tar) sealant at the base of the Bouchon. This may explain the discontinuation of the washer while still needing a seal to keep moisture out of the grenade.

 

Pictures: 1 & 2 of 3

The TM 1901 ( 1944) mentions a fuze modification was used to do away with sealing washers. I have a different possible explanation. Two of my grenades have discoloration ( heat ?) and residue gunk where the body and fuze meet, they also " rattle", having pieces of a blown ignitor fuze inside them. I do recall GI's would deactivate grenades by shaking out the EC blank powder ( grenade filler) , then loosely screwing the fuze assembly back on, ( one turn or two) pulling the pin and blowing the blackpowder fuze train inside the grenade. Being loosely screwed on the hot air and smoke would vent out the loosely threaded fuze base, often leaving parts of the fuze train inside. Those examples are what I consider " the real deal" and most valued. Sure, the yellow band and paint is discolored, but 100 percent GI authentic...to many grenades have had fuze assemblies switched by collectors, while still correct, not a " rock solid " bring back.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Notice page 238,TM 9-1904 mentions no longer using a sealing washer with the M10A2. Interesting also is the fuze train length reduction, change, etc...unable to post due to upload size, but that section is worth referencing if you have a MK 2 grenade, want to ID a grenade, want to buy a grenade, or sell a grenade. Maybe someone can take time to post it, I have little patience with using resizers that do not work.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Have an RFX from the 50s I got at Quantico as a kid that has the washer.

Thanks for the reply. I also have a few training grenades ( M205 fuzes) that have washers. No idea why. The problem with grenades is fuzes have been added, switched, removed in the collector chain. I will have to check TM's on trainers to see what was dictated, but as in the world of grenades, there are no rules. The greatest fallacy is the M200 was not correct, however, a collector, metal detector in Belgium has unearthed, dug up, ( brave soul) many M200 marked spoons on frags.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply. I also have a few training grenades ( M205 fuzes) that have washers. No idea why. The problem with grenades is fuzes have been added, switched, removed in the collector chain. I will have to check TM's on trainers to see what was dictated, but as in the world of grenades, there are no rules. The greatest fallacy is the M200 was not correct, however, a collector, metal detector in Belgium has unearthed, dug up, ( brave soul) many M200 marked spoons on frags.

 

I can tell you that mine is not messed with. There was a small dump going into the river with a chain link fence around it. During low tide it was easy to wade around the dump and get cool stuff. Quantico was great for a kid in the 50's and very early 60's! We would also bike out and sneak into the tank park and grab machine gun belts (blanks) and run.

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif

donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gif

donation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...

I guess I missed this thread. Ill throw up a couple of line drawings I have from manual I have. As you can see even the blue training grenade had a composite washer. As for the black tar sealant mentioned above, that is Pettman Cement. It was and is still being used as a fuze sealer today.

post-2641-0-09206400-1583250365.jpeg

post-2641-0-22830500-1583250394.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a secret manual titled grenades, 1945. 14x8 inches. Each listing has about 4-5 pages of notes and line drawings etc. It was complied by the Canadians in Europe towards the end of the war.

post-2641-0-71248300-1583790899.jpeg

post-2641-0-75681700-1583791209.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Drawing dated January 13th 1945, showing: Washer, Fiber, Vulcanized; Part Number 73-0-6A, Spec Number ASX-643 (use two washers or one 1/16 inch thick)

post-5775-0-21634500-1585320618_thumb.jpg

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
http://www.questmasters.us

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting example of the two pronged M204 fuze. It replaced the Short lived M6 TNT fuze. The M204 is usually seen on the later M26 and M61 frags. Thanks for posting.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The drawings represent the latest revisions, you have to use the date of the last revision to acknowledge the changes. Unless the item was superseded or completely changed it retained its original drawing date and incorporates the latest changes based upon the revisions therefore it could look significantly different from the base drawings in the subtle areas.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.