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WWI 34th Division Patch Project


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#26 dirk-dig

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 10:48 AM

Them there are the green ones. 

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  • 34th sanitary.jpg
  • 34th wool38.jpg


#27 dirk-dig

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 10:53 AM

Incidentally, I would love to know whatever happened to the one in post 5 possibly identified as "trains."  I was the high bidder on that listing back in 2008 when it sold on ebay from the million dollar collection.  It never showed and the seller couldn't find it.  He eventually gave a full refund, but always said it was mine if he found it.  I never heard from him.  I'm not out any money of course, but I really wanted to add that to the collection.  



#28 dirk-dig

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 11:38 AM

I've been talking with John Patton on the 34th tunic I own (the one with white/blue split background), and he offered the following possibility.  The tunic has an infantry collar disc with "S" on it.  He thought Supply was part of the Regimental Staff and Troops, which often used rectangle flags divided horizontally in white and blue with insignia (i.e. 34th SSI design in center).  This occurred in the Hawaiian Division during the 20's/30's and he didn't see why it would be any different with other divisions at the same time or earlier.  Thus, the white/blue shield could indicate HQ, HQ Troops for that variation.



#29 MWalsh

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 05:55 PM

Here are a few more to add to the discussion.

 

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20151012 055.JPG

 



#30 MWalsh

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 05:56 PM

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20151012 057.JPG

 



#31 MWalsh

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 05:57 PM

20151012 061.JPG

 

20151012 065.JPG

 



#32 MWalsh

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 05:58 PM

20151012 067.JPG

 

20151012 068.JPG

 



#33 MWalsh

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 05:58 PM

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#34 MWalsh

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 05:59 PM

20151012a 004.JPG

 

20151012a 005.JPG

 



#35 MWalsh

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 06:02 PM

To my knowledge all of these are "good", some were from families, some shows, some eBay. I am not a "patch-o-phile", I bought them as I have liked to pick up 34th Division stuff off and on over the years, so my knowledge on the details, what the colors may mean, and who may have made them and where, is not super great.  

 

The state designated ones I believe were all made at Demning, New Mexico, at or near Camp Cody, likely 1916, maybe 1917. 



#36 doyler

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 08:59 PM

Nice Mr.Walsh...real nice



#37 jagjetta

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 06:36 AM

To my knowledge all of these are "good", some were from families, some shows, some eBay. I am not a "patch-o-phile", I bought them as I have liked to pick up 34th Division stuff off and on over the years, so my knowledge on the details, what the colors may mean, and who may have made them and where, is not super great.  

 

The state designated ones I believe were all made at Demning, New Mexico, at or near Camp Cody, likely 1916, maybe 1917. 

 

VERY nice addition to the base of knowledge, Mike! Thanks for sharing and keeping the info associated with the patches.

 

John



#38 Bill K

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 10:01 PM

I've been talking with John Patton on the 34th tunic I own (the one with white/blue split background), and he offered the following possibility.  The tunic has an infantry collar disc with "S" on it.  He thought Supply was part of the Regimental Staff and Troops, which often used rectangle flags divided horizontally in white and blue with insignia (i.e. 34th SSI design in center).  This occurred in the Hawaiian Division during the 20's/30's and he didn't see why it would be any different with other divisions at the same time or earlier.  Thus, the white/blue shield could indicate HQ, HQ Troops for that variation.


You mean like these? These are 26th Divs under the 1931 regulations. First is the Div Flag then the Div HQ Co guidon. Second is the Brigade Flag and then Brigade HQ Co guidon. I don't know what was authorized or used in WWI. Maybe someone has a picture of one in a yardlong?

But I did find this:

http://cdm15005.cont...on/flags/id/664

It shows the 95th Div's HQ Co Guidon from the WWI era. problem is it's red and white.

The 73rd Brigade Flag from the 37th div looks like this:

http://cdm15005.cont.../id/596/rec/169

So at least some the Bde HQ's would appear to be the same.

Problem is I found this:

http://cdm15005.cont.../id/630/rec/185

http://cdm15005.cont.../id/631/rec/186

The WWI 83rd Div's 1st Brigade (165th) used red & white and the 2nd Brigade (166th) used blue and white.

Confused? I am.

Attached Images

  • 26.png
  • 26 hq co.png
  • 26 51.png
  • 26 51 hq co.png


#39 Bill K

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 10:03 PM

The 26th Div after WWI had these, I've seen them referred to as parade flags.

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  • 9155268_orig.jpg


#40 Bill K

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 10:11 PM

I should note, the 95th Div HQ guidon may look like a Cav guidon because many (if not all) of the Div Hq troops were pulled from the Cav Regiment that was part of each Division early on in their organization. Later some of these troopers were reassigned to the HQ troop/company of the divisions.

#41 BROBS

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 06:20 PM

Bill the reversed color is 109th ammo trains, comes in two sizes, one for tunic and larger one for over coat. The red white and blue, the jury is out on this one, I've looked for years to try and ID this one with no success. There is also more than two varieties of medical that I've observed. Not much help but not much information available on this one.george

A guy at the St Paul show (Nick if anyone knows him) had a WW1 helmet painted with the same red/white/blue 34th insignia... He was curious about it too.

#42 world war I nerd

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 06:34 PM

I wonder if the shield shaped 34th Division insignias might represent the HQ of either an infantry or artillery battalion?

 

If so, then maybe the red and blue insignia represented an artillery battalion ... and the white and blue insignia represented an infantry battalion?

 

Just a guess until more information surfaces.



#43 Bill K

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 08:46 PM

I wonder if the shield shaped 34th Division insignias might represent the HQ of either an infantry or artillery battalion?
 
If so, then maybe the red and blue insignia represented an artillery battalion ... and the white and blue insignia represented an infantry battalion?
 
Just a guess until more information surfaces.


I'd lean toward The Div HQ or Brigade HQ.

So far there are 3 variations that are similar. If you follow the structure of the 2nd Div backgrounds the Div HQ had the shield and each Brigade had their own shape.

The one with the blue and white shield also has a black embroidered line around the red skull. So does the So does the black border white background version. Essentially both have a black border just different backgrounds.

Could This one be the Div HQ? like the guidon.

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  • IMG_7151.JPG
  • 26 hq co.png


#44 Bill K

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 08:48 PM

And these two be the Brigade HQ's?

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  • 34th Div Patch unknown.jpg
  • post-8286-0-27189900-1444675030.jpg
  • 26 51 hq co.png


#45 doyler

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 10:40 PM

http://www.usmilitar...n/?fromsearch=1

Named 109th ammo train I posted at one time.

Bmc also posted a officers with red back round.

#46 gomorgan

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 03:44 PM

I'll have to vote the R/W/B versions are probably Hdq's something, just cannot find it in writing or on a ID'd uniform to make a better guess. I've handled a dozen reversed colors, all to 109th, and the green borders are usually found on 109th Engineers, about half of our IaNG company from Keokuk went to Demming and became part of the 109th Engineers or 109th trains, the other half went to Co. L 168th Inf (42nd ID) I actually spoke to one veteran of the 109th Trains. All the patches I've seen with purple featured in them were medical associated. So much we don't know about this unit and it's insignia but it's great to see everyones variations. From an old "Red Bull" guy thanks...george

#47 MWalsh

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 04:54 AM

I like the idea that the R / W / B are HQ also,must from the standpoint that the two I have had (NOT including the handmade one with the metal numbers) were on officer tunics or officer quality tunics, that statement or assumption based on having them in hand personally or from what I see as the background cloth.

So then the question is... Where was that unit at?

Did the 34th actually have an HQ element go to France, and are the nicest ones French made then or??? I know parts of the 34th were parceled out, i.e. the 151st FA and 168th Infantry to the 42nd Division, some of the 135th men going to the 88th Division to round them out, etc...

#48 MWalsh

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 04:58 AM

The thought has crossed my mind that maybe the R / W / B patches came out of Minnesota, specifically from when the Minnesota National Guard trained at Camp Lakeview, along the Mississippi.

The 34th HQ element has been in Minnesota for years that I am aware of, but admittedly I have no idea for the WW1 era.

Perhaps a tailor shop in the Minneapolis or St Paul area?

I would be really curious to see if the existing officer uniforms with the R / W / B patches have tailor tags in them, and if so they are from the same tailor shop perhaps? Maybe all done around the same time or place?

Might possibly be a clue as to the units near them, like HQ versus something else?

Just some random thoughts.

#49 Bill K

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:32 PM

Just found another one.... It was listed as 34th Div Trains, but which one?

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  • 34th trains new.jpg


#50 aussie digger

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 11:21 AM

Heres a group of mine with the reversed color patch worn by a member of the 126th FA. http://www.usmilitar...hl=+34th +train


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