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Help regulating humidity!


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#1 nreed_94

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 06:45 AM

As a southerner living in North Carolina, keeping the humidity under control in my collection room is a constant struggle. In the summer months the humidity can get to 65% or more, with it dipping in the low 40s during the winter. Since my collection is always increasing in it's value, I've decided to take the step towards more professional means of keeping my collection safe. I found a great website that discusses the dangers of unregulated temperature and humidity on a collection: http://www.kaisersbu.../preservation/. The site mentions using a regulated humidifier in the winter and regulated dehumidifier in the summer, but for the life of me I can't find either online. Does anyone have any recommendations for how I can keep the humidity under control? With summer coming up, the dehumidifier will be my #1 priority. Does anyone have any experience with a particular dehumidifier and humidifier that keeps a room well regulated?



#2 Brig

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 06:51 AM

I've heard people say they use small ones like the types that some instrument stores use to regulate humidity on their handcrafted wood instruments, but have never heard a model number



#3 Garandomatic

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 07:03 AM

Not sure if "regulated" means it's any different than mine, but I have a model (forget which and the room is all locked up at the moment) that is a bit larger , maybe 2.5 gallon bucket, and you can set the desired humidity on it.  I have read though, that this is not necessarily 100% true on all dehumidifiers, so an actual hygrometer would be a decent idea to have.  Also, I would recommend a fan to run here and there, because you will probably succeed in drying the center of the room, but there are always areas that are more damp, particularly in the basement.



#4 nreed_94

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 07:47 AM

Not sure if "regulated" means it's any different than mine, but I have a model (forget which and the room is all locked up at the moment) that is a bit larger , maybe 2.5 gallon bucket, and you can set the desired humidity on it.  I have read though, that this is not necessarily 100% true on all dehumidifiers, so an actual hygrometer would be a decent idea to have.  Also, I would recommend a fan to run here and there, because you will probably succeed in drying the center of the room, but there are always areas that are more damp, particularly in the basement.

 

That would be exactly what I'm looking for; something that I can set the humidity level on so it will automatically turn on if the room is too humid. The room is kind of small, so the ceiling fan does a pretty good job at circulating air so far, but I could get a few small fans to help move air a little easier.



#5 Garandomatic

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 09:12 AM

A celling fan ought to be fine, but just check it out and see of you have some areas that don't get any air.

#6 nkomo

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 10:02 AM

Not sure if "regulated" means it's any different than mine, but I have a model (forget which and the room is all locked up at the moment) that is a bit larger , maybe 2.5 gallon bucket, and you can set the desired humidity on it.  I have read though, that this is not necessarily 100% true on all dehumidifiers, so an actual hygrometer would be a decent idea to have.  Also, I would recommend a fan to run here and there, because you will probably succeed in drying the center of the room, but there are always areas that are more damp, particularly in the basement.

  I could not agree with this post more.  I live in Northeastern Kentucky and also have some major issues with humidity during the Spring, Summer, and Autumn months.  I actually have three dehumidifiers going in the collection rooms (my room and my dad's room).  During the Summer months, I get about 10 gallons of water out of the rooms a day.  Dehumidifiers are a MUST for any collection where humidity is an issue.

 

  I also agree that a fan needs to be blowing in the room to keep the air circulating and to also ward off the dreaded clothing moths (they much prefer still air to move around in).  

 

  I also agree that getting a humidity gauge is essential.  You can get them at Walmart for around $10.  Some models give you both  humidity levels and temperature.



#7 nreed_94

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 12:33 PM

  I could not agree with this post more.  I live in Northeastern Kentucky and also have some major issues with humidity during the Spring, Summer, and Autumn months.  I actually have three dehumidifiers going in the collection rooms (my room and my dad's room).  During the Summer months, I get about 10 gallons of water out of the rooms a day.  Dehumidifiers are a MUST for any collection where humidity is an issue.

 

  I also agree that a fan needs to be blowing in the room to keep the air circulating and to also ward off the dreaded clothing moths (they much prefer still air to move around in).  

 

  I also agree that getting a humidity gauge is essential.  You can get them at Walmart for around $10.  Some models give you both  humidity levels and temperature.

 

I ended up getting a gauge a few weeks back, and it's a great little tool! I think it's more accurate at predicting temperature than my thermostat. It also has a high and low humidity gauge. I've noticed that throughout the day, the humidity can vary by 10% or more, which is why I want to get a dehumidifier to help keep it at a more consistent level. Is your dehumidifier automatic? I don't want one that I have to manually turn on an off. It's just a matter of finding a reliable one that I can set to an optimal 50% humidity level. Luckily I don't have any trouble with moths, or else collecting would be a lot more difficult. 



#8 nkomo

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 04:22 PM

  Okay....I was mistaken.  I actually have four dehumidifiers in use right now.  I forgot about the dehumidifier in the "annex" room.  Here are the dehumidifiers I run:

 

1.  GE ADEW50LQQ1 (50 pints in a 24 hour period).  I run two of these in my personal collection room.  I would estimate the room to be around 400 sq. feet.  My wife bought these for me from Walmart and they ran about $200 a piece.  Humidity level was about 80% to 85% before dehumidifiers were in place.  Humidity level runs around 40% in the Summer.

 

2.  Frigidaire LAD604DUL (50 pints in a 24 hour period).  This is the one that runs in my dad's collecting room.  I would estimate his room to be about 425 sq feet,  Humidity level was about 80% to 85% before dehumidifier was in place.  Humidity level runs around 40% in the Summer.  This one came from Lowe's and was around $225.

 

3.Soleus Air SG-DEH-45-1 (45 pints in a 24 hour period).  This is the one that is in my "annex" room.  I would estimate the room to be around 75 sq feet.  Humidity level in that room was around 65% before dehumidifier was in place.  Humidity level runs around 40% as well.  This one was from Ebay and ran around $75.

 

  The Frigidaire and Soleus Air have been going for about 5 years.  The GEs have been going for 3 years.  I wouldn't be without a dehumidifier.  It is essential for any collection in humid areas.


Edited by nkomo, 19 April 2015 - 04:23 PM.


#9 Garandomatic

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 04:54 PM

Mine's a Frigidaire model # FAD504DWD.  Ordered it from Home Depot online after some research into efficiency and quality, seems like a winner.



#10 nreed_94

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 05:48 PM

For that Frigidaire, are you able to set what humidity level you want? My room is about 65% right now, which isn't too bad, but I'd like it a little lower to prevent mold. I want have it be able to shut off automatically though, that way my room doesn't get too dry and cause my leather to dry out.

#11 BROBS

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 05:56 PM

Simply running two dehumidifiers in the basement works for me... Keeps my main floor regulated without having them upstairs.

I would assume with a bigger house you would need even more.
-Brian

#12 nreed_94

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 06:03 PM

I'll stop by Lowes tomorrow and see what they have. I found a Frigidaire on Amazon for about $187 if I can't find one in person. 65% is pretty manageable now, but it's about to get a lot more humid once it gets hotter outside.

Edited by nreed_94, 19 April 2015 - 06:12 PM.


#13 Garandomatic

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 01:14 AM

Yeah, it has a digital display, and will only run when it needs to to keep it at your setting, and will also tell you the humidity if it is not running, like when the bucket is full. It's a little larger model, seems to work like a champ.



#14 Bob Hudson

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:27 AM

"During the Summer months, I get about 10 gallons of water out of the rooms a day."
 

You could send that excess moisture to California...

 

How much time do you spend emptying water each day? 

 

There are a lot of articles online about museum use of dehumidifiers - this one says 45% RH is a good target: http://www.sylvane.c...ve-collections/



#15 BROBS

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 06:02 AM

10 gallons? that seems excessive to me.  I might be able to pull 2 a day and Iowa is pretty humid. 

 

If there is that much moisture in your house I would question your windows and how well sealed your home might be?

 

Or a problem in the basement?

-Brian



#16 nkomo

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 12:15 PM

I have to empty the dehumidifiers twice a day in the Summer and early Fall months.  The main problem we have is that we have a garage door.    Basement has been water proofed, but it has always been damp.  

 

  Northeastern Kentucky is the most humid place I have ever lived.  It is absolutely miserable in the Summer and we suffer with the three Hs everyday (Hazy, hot, and humid).  However, the dehumidifiers are wonderful at doing what they are designed to do.  



#17 costa

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 04:37 PM

HAS ANY ONE MENTIONED CENTRAL A/C?? THE AIR HANDLER CURCULATES THE AIR AND REMOVES MOISTURE IN THE HOUSE--------------



#18 dustin

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 01:22 PM

For the guys with basements your problem is the Vapor Drive or Emission coming from the concrete floor and walls. Concrete is porous with capillaries more simply put tubes or tunnels, the moisture around the structure is drawn through those capillaries by the warmer air in the basement then evaporating creating a high Relative Humidity. The more dehumidifiers and fans may actual create more issues drawing the moisture through. There are vapor emission tests kits you can buy online that will tell you the foot pounds per square foot in a specified amount of time. What really needs to happen is a vapor emission treatment on the below grade surfaces of the concrete especially for you guys the have CMU block basement walls also known as cinder block, moisture migrates through those like no tomorrow. Research vapor emission on concrete sub-striates. Once you have treated the concrete surfaces you need an air exchange system which creates air flow, you can find these online as well. If this is accomplished then those of you using 3-4 dehumidifiers you could reduce it down to one. Either continue fighting it or treat the issue and the issue being vapor emission and air exchange. I remediate basement moisture issues for a living and this method works wonders in creating a climate controlled scenario.


Edited by dustin, 03 May 2015 - 01:23 PM.


#19 BROBS

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 01:36 PM

Hey there Dustin,
how would you "treat" the walls for this?  Basement wall paint?
 
Then what is the "air exchanger" you speak of?
 

I tried to PM you these questions but your inbox must be full.

 

I'm all ears,

-Brian



#20 Garandomatic

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 03:53 PM

Do post for all of our benefit! I think I've got some work to do!



#21 costa

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 03:56 PM

WHERE CAN I GET A GAUGE OR SOME SORT OF DEVICE TO MEASURE HUMIDITY IN A ROOM? I HEAR THAT BEST READING IS 50% + 5 AND TEMPERATURE NO HIGHER THEN 70

 



#22 BROBS

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 06:02 PM

Costa:  Wal Mart.

 

there are small little indoor "weather" stations for under $10.  will show high and low temp and humidity for the day as well.

 

it has helped me immensely.

 

-Brian



#23 costa

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 03:04 AM

THANKS BRIAN--- I would like to see just what is happening in the room.



#24 dustin

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 03:38 PM

Google " Vapor Emission Test Kit"  they are around $40 and just follow the simple instructions with the kit and there should be an EPA chart that you can use to determine your vapor emission ratio.

I use industrial vaporprooofing products that are not sold over the open market and are penetrating epoxies, chemical curing products. The key is the word "PENETRATING" if any product you are contemplating in buying does not use this terminology then don't use it.  The two component chemical cure stuff I use penetrates the concrete by first broadcasting the surface with water and as the concrete absorbs the water it creates draw then apply the product creating penetration sealing the concrete deep, vapor then cannot migrate. Most of the "magic" products on the open market merely adhere to the surface and can be pushed off, as well all know vapor or steam creates pressure (PSI). For those of you that have painted basement walls , do you seen and bubbling, cracking or flaking? this is caused by vapor drive. Vapor is an invisible enemy this is the primary contributor to odor in a basement that musty mildew smell and especially when you lay carpet with the pad right over the concrete, its a sponge. The easiest thing one could do is get air circulation allowing fresh air in cycling out that stagnant moist air....On a nice summer day we open up our windows but really how many go down to the basement and open up the windows down there?

If you have operable windows in your basement simply open them up on a fairly consistent basis for air circulation, its as simple as that

The next step from there is install a Air Exchanger Dehumidifier, you can google for many different types. With this system you get air rotation along with dehumidifier properties in a closed or in this case a secure location.

But most of all retard or eliminate the vapor emission.

This I the tough part, if the concrete is not treated with any paint or what have you you could just simply apply a product however for optimal outcome it is best to surface grind the area, this opens up the capillaries and allows penetration of the product for both the walls and floor.

if the concrete is painted or skim coated with a stucco or something you could just take your chances and apply a product but there are no guarantees it won't fail. 

Use a product called Radonseal ...google that and play around on there web page.

Google

Radonseal

Air Exchanger Dehumidifier



#25 dustin

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 04:07 PM

For those of you that decide to take the extra step to surface grind or better described as rough the surface to remove the old paint or caramelized cream of the concrete use a 9" grinder. These are available with a shroud and vacuum from Home Depot rental equipment departments and should only take about 250 square feet per hour, you will be taking off about 1/16 of an inch maybe just a touch more. For the walls I highly suggest a 4.5 inch grinder with shroud and vacuum but for a better shoulder workout and burn then by all means use the 9 incher. They will have various disks available for the removal of paints and epoxies etc...For an 5-800 square foot basement it should only take you a day to grind it out.

After you grind for a short while look at your work you will start noticing dark spots or strips, this is water being drawn through the concrete.




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