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Pattern 1904 collar EGA's for Officer's Service uniform


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#1 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 09:27 AM

A recent set of Eagles have landed in the nest. Shown is a pair of collar emblems that would have been worn on the officers service and field dress. The elements of these emblems are period correct, size and dimension. The eagles dipped wings; spread legs and applied to the globe. There is stempling across the globe, anchor ring - stock - flukes are indeed period correct. The reverse is hallmarked Pasquale, with SF Cal below and finally period correct pin back and C clip. Every element one should see by other period makers such as Meyer & Gemsco are present...

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  • pasquale_service_collars_1904_001.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 04 June 2008 - 11:16 AM.


#2 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 09:27 AM

reverse

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  • pasquale_service_collars_1904_003.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 09 April 2008 - 09:29 AM.


#3 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 09:28 AM

Please take a good look at this hallmark. I've seen my fair share of poorly stamped emblems and even a few restrikes like these. Has anyone else seen something of this nature?

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  • pasquale_service_collars_1904_004.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 09 April 2008 - 09:34 AM.


#4 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 09:28 AM

Look closely at the anchor stock where it meets the globe... see the paint bubbles. Period original or......... someone touching up the emblem. Recent or long time ago?

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  • Copy_of_pasquale_service_collars_1904_002.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 09 April 2008 - 09:37 AM.


#5 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 09:28 AM

The eagle... I compared with the few others in my collection. Comparable details, but, not as sharp as some. Maybe the paint???

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  • Copy__2__of_pasquale_service_collars_1904_002.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 09 April 2008 - 09:41 AM.


#6 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 09:30 AM

General details are dull in appearence, note the scar across the stamped continets.

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  • Copy__3__of_pasquale_service_collars_1904_002.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 09 April 2008 - 09:45 AM.


#7 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 09:30 AM

Note the general appearance and scoring across the back. Not uncommon, but, I have a degree of suspicion these might be a set of "dirty birds" AKA high quality repro or counterfeit. Maybe the touch-up paint has me thrown here? Regret the low quality pic's today. For some reason cannot get camera into macro mode. Will try again later. Thank you for your opinion's here. s/f Darrell

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  • pasquale_service_collars_1904_003.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 09 April 2008 - 10:00 AM.


#8 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 10:57 AM

camera now working correct, more details

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  • pasquale_service_collars_1904_011.jpg


#9 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:00 AM

more detail...

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  • pasquale_service_collars_1904_020.jpg


#10 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:03 AM

more detail...

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#11 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:05 AM

more details

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#12 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:09 AM

more detail

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#13 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:10 AM

more detail

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#14 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:15 AM

and hallmark. sorry for the lousy pictures starting off the thread. s/f Darrell

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  • pasquale_service_collars_1904_016.jpg


#15 bobgee

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:55 AM

Darrell............Even your "poor" pics are better than most of mine! Your macros are terrific. Look at Pic#10. Is that a bit of 'flash' on the left foot? I don't like to see 'flash' on old emblems. Like you, I find these pieces suspicious looking ......mostly for the same reasons you do. I definitely do not like the "Pasquale" HM stamp or the filing marks. Way too sloppy for that old prestigious firm.
Do they fit any of the types that 'NCHS' has prodeced & sold on EBay etc? Where did you acquire them? Good Source? Qustionable? or.......?
You have the advantage of having them in hand. That makes your judgement superior to mine. Be interested to hear what others opine.
Semper Fi......Bobgee

#16 robert60446

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:58 AM

HI Darrell,
Killer EGA’s. It is interesting to see that back support for pin runs through the full length of anchor. For sure they were not concern about material savings here… ;)

#17 robert60446

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 12:03 PM

Look at Pic#10. Is that a bit of 'flash' on the left foot? I don't like to see 'flash' on old emblems. Like you, I find these pieces suspicious looking ......mostly for the same reasons you do. I definitely do not like the "Pasquale" HM stamp or the filing marks. Way too sloppy for that old prestigious firm.

Bob,
Hardware looks absolutely identical to Gemsco made pieces...personally I have no problem with Darrel's examples...

#18 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 12:17 PM

Bob, thank you for the kindly reply & thoughts. Have finally got enough PM natural sun and began looking at them again... guess what, someone put a substance as in paint or something on the emblem... the picture here shows were and were it did not get applied. And there are seceral other areas were this "sustance did not get to. The "flash" between the legs is also the unknown "substance" as it poked around there with a pin and some of it popped right off. Jeremiah has suggested the lead test, yes, that should be done. Have been thinking about this deeply, we've come to know this past year many firms did not make all or some instances some of their emblems for the outfitters of the period. Is this an example, of old a century old outsourcing?

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  • pasquale_service_collars_1904_025.jpg


#19 robert60446

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 12:43 PM

Hi Darrel,
Thanks for extra pictures, well, I’m 100% positive your EGA’s are good pieces made from bronze / tombak. There is no way that fakers could replicate period correct hardware…also level of details and quality of your EGA’s eliminates casting on the spot…

#20 Brig

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 01:38 PM

Excellent pair, Darrell. Lots of nice birdies soaring your way lately...

#21 Jeremiah

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 04:25 PM

Darrell, I pulled my 1904 single in this pattern of of my display board and it is almost a perfect match for your left collar bird, minus the flaw in S. America. Looks like mine was struck before yours. Also worth noting is that mine is an unmarked bird.

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  • Gemsco_04.JPG
  • Gemsco_04_2.JPG


#22 robert60446

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:37 PM

Darrell, I pulled my 1904 single in this pattern of of my display board and it is almost a perfect match for your left collar bird, minus the flaw in S. America. Looks like mine was struck before yours. Also worth noting is that mine is an unmarked bird.


HI Jeremiah,
I agree - your example is almost identical to Darrel’s birds. Again, please note how hardware (hinge, pin and catch) matches perfectly on all these EGA’s. Great examples guys!

#23 bobgee

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 10:20 AM

Archer_Service_Brown_Painted_Sgl_OBV.JPG

Archer_EGA_2_Rev.JPG

Darrell & Jeremiah - Here's a couple of pics of a vintage painted right collar emblem once owned by Col. Percy Archer - commissioned in 1905 - retired 1935. Gary had an exact mate - same side! No marks of any kind on reverse. Mine does not have the fret marks on the globe. Looks like it pairs up nicely with Jeremiah's left side singleton! (Psssst - Jeremiah - wanna do a deal? :D) I always figured it for WWI era or before. Your Pasquales should be the same era . Still not comfortable w/ the Hallmark and the file marks, though. My 2 cents!
Semper Fi.......Bobgee

#24 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 10:35 AM

Bob, my - my that emblem is to die for. With fresh eyes this morning I compared this new set of collars with a dress emblem I had for some time which also has the stempling (or fret work) and no hallmark as yours, Jeremiah or gary's... the edges of the anchor & globe are remarkably similar to each other... as well as the filling marks exhibited across the reverse in many areas. And as is the continents configuration and stempling style or character. I've not had time to sit down with both and get identical shots of the same areas. But will do so ASAP... likely this weekend. Thank you for sharing with us this special emblem and your thoughts. s/f Darrell

#25 bobgee

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 11:26 AM

Thanks, Darrell! Of course the 1904 regs for the first time specified that Officer's ornaments for the field hat and khaki cap as well collars of the field coat to be the same design as that of the dress & undress insignia "but made of dull-finished bronze metal." More detail is in Driscoll, Chptr IV, Page 31. Orgel shows a very similar type in Fig. 11 which he states to be a Gemsco product circa 1904. Maybe in this transitory period some emblems were painted in an Em-Nu like substance to conform with the regs. Maybe Gemsco made your new birds, and Pasquale sold them and they were at some point painted. Still a crappy HM stamping. http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif LOL. And no, I'M NOT JEALOUS!!!! http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/crying.gif
S/F.....Bobgee


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