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USN and USMC rank badges for garrison caps


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#1 trubia26

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 06:52 AM

Hello everybody! I am a WWII garrison caps collector and I know (well...I think I know) that the rank badges for the garrison cap in USN or USMC are smaller than in Army or Air Force...is that right?...Is always in that way?...I mean...Marines or Navy officer could use larger badges in their garrison?
Thanks for all your help and happy to meet this forum! :thumbsup:

#2 sigsaye

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 08:05 AM

Hello everybody! I am a WWII garrison caps collector and I know (well...I think I know) that the rank badges for the garrison cap in USN or USMC are smaller than in Army or Air Force...is that right?...Is always in that way?...I mean...Marines or Navy officer could use larger badges in their garrison?
Thanks for all your help and happy to meet this forum! :thumbsup:

It is always that way. The Navy and Marines had their own insignia, bit different shaped than the Army, and always smaller. The same insignia worn on the garrison caps was worn on their shirt collars.

OK, that being said, there is always the exception and I'm sure some one will find a photo that negates what I just said. For instance, on Navy ships there is a "Position" called the "Bull Ensign" That is the senior Ensign on the ship. In a ceremoney held in the ward room, he/she is presented with a set of large Ensign bars that are actually for wear on the shoulders of the working jacket (do they still even have those?). The bars are engraved BULL, and are passed on when the Bul makes JG to the next senior BULL.

Steve Hesson

#3 trubia26

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 08:14 AM

It is always that way. The Navy and Marines had their own insignia, bit different shaped than the Army, and always smaller. The same insignia worn on the garrison caps was worn on their shirt collars.

OK, that being said, there is always the exception and I'm sure some one will find a photo that negates what I just said. For instance, on Navy ships there is a "Position" called the "Bull Ensign" That is the senior Ensign on the ship. In a ceremoney held in the ward room, he/she is presented with a set of large Ensign bars that are actually for wear on the shoulders of the working jacket (do they still even have those?). The bars are engraved BULL, and are passed on when the Bul makes JG to the next senior BULL.

Steve Hesson


Thanks a lot for the information Steve! I want to learn all as I can about your garrison caps, and now I Know something more. You are really nice! Regards from an US caps collector and all my best from Spain! :lol:

#4 sigsaye

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 08:35 AM

You are quite welcome. By the way, Spain is a beutiful country. I have been there several times (with the US Navy) to different port cities and loved every one.

Steve Hesson

#5 trubia26

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 09:45 AM

You are quite welcome. By the way, Spain is a beutiful country. I have been there several times (with the US Navy) to different port cities and loved every one.

Steve Hesson


I am happy to hear that Steve! And thanks again for your help!

#6 trubia26

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 11:29 AM

Just a last question...I am writing in an Spanish militar forum about the history of the Garrison cap...well, I know the origin of the term "overseas cap"...but, why change to "Garrison cap"? Maybe in honour of a General or similar that aproved the use of this cap in the Army?
(I know that the "Ridgeway cap" is because of General Mathew B. Ridgeway...so it is possible what I think?)
Thanks and sorry for so many questions..

#7 Justin B.

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 01:34 PM

Just a last question...I am writing in an Spanish militar forum about the history of the Garrison cap...well, I know the origin of the term "overseas cap"...but, why change to "Garrison cap"? Maybe in honour of a General or similar that aproved the use of this cap in the Army?


"Garrison" es lo mismo que "cuartel" en "gorra de cuartel." En la Primera Guerra Mundial, los "garrison caps" eran alternativos populares de el casco, porque eran pequeños y planos, y faciles para mantener en la mochila o en la guerrera. Tan en el campo, usaron generalmente el casco, y en el cuartel ("garrison") usaron los "garrison caps."

"Garrison" is the same as "cuartel" in "gorra de cuartel." In World War I, garrison caps were popular as alternatives to the helmet, because they were small and flat, and easy to keep in the pack or tunic. So in the field, helmets were usually worn, and in garrison the "garrison cap."

¡Pardon mi español, por favor! Saludos, mi amigo,
Justin B.

#8 trubia26

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 02:18 PM

"Garrison" es lo mismo que "cuartel" en "gorra de cuartel." En la Primera Guerra Mundial, los "garrison caps" eran alternativos populares de el casco, porque eran pequeños y planos, y faciles para mantener en la mochila o en la guerrera. Tan en el campo, usaron generalmente el casco, y en el cuartel ("garrison") usaron los "garrison caps."

"Garrison" is the same as "cuartel" in "gorra de cuartel." In World War I, garrison caps were popular as alternatives to the helmet, because they were small and flat, and easy to keep in the pack or tunic. So in the field, helmets were usually worn, and in garrison the "garrison cap."

¡Pardon mi español, por favor! Saludos, mi amigo,
Justin B.


Wow! Your spanish is really good and clear! I have seen some post in here talking about Garrison caps, but I could not understand the really meaning of some sentences and words (you know...some words have differents meaning depending the context)...but your post have been really clear and I understood the meaning of "garrison". Thanks a lot Justin...in this place there are really good persons!! And congratulations for your facility with the idiom! Regards from Spain my friend!

If someone have any question about spanish uniforms or bayonets or something I will be happy to give back the favour. Greetings!

#9 trubia26

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 10:27 AM

OK, that being said, there is always the exception and I'm sure some one will find a photo that negates what I just said. For instance, on Navy ships there is a "Position" called the "Bull Ensign" That is the senior Ensign on the ship. In a ceremoney held in the ward room, he/she is presented with a set of large Ensign bars that are actually for wear on the shoulders of the working jacket (do they still even have those?). The bars are engraved BULL, and are passed on when the Bul makes JG to the next senior BULL.

Steve Hesson


Is this what you call "BULL"?:
http://www.flyingtig...egory_Code=05MC

#10 sigsaye

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 04:11 PM

Is this what you call "BULL"?:
http://www.flyingtig...egory_Code=05MC

No, the bars I have seen are the modern ones and have a slight curv to them to fit the curve of the shoulder. The word BULL is engraved on them. And it is only a Navy thing.

Steve Hesson

#11 Bearmon

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 06:13 PM

Should we get into the "real" name of these lids.....Piss-Cutters

#12 trubia26

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:29 AM

Should we get into the "real" name of these lids.....Piss-Cutters

:lol: Yes I know...we also named our spanish garrison caps with a similiar name..."Chochos", a coloquial way to say...well, you know what part of the woman I mean...is something like the name you use for these caps too: "darling cap" sorry for my dirty languaje...It´s not my fault!....I read it in wikipedia!)

#13 trubia26

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:34 AM

Well, it´s not exactly "darling cap"...I suppose you have a filter for the dirt languaje in here :think: :thumbsup:

#14 Brig

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 11:08 AM

darling...guess we're going PC on the C? hahaha

#15 Dave

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 11:29 AM

No, the bars I have seen are the modern ones and have a slight curv to them to fit the curve of the shoulder. The word BULL is engraved on them. And it is only a Navy thing.

Steve Hesson



The hat in the picture has an incorrect bar; it should be a small sized one vice the large one.

As far as the BULL and the JORGE...the JORGE (pronounced "George") typically wears regular sized devices on the shirt with "PORT" and "STBD" engraved on them. He/she is the junior Ensign on the ship. Once they become the senior Ensign, they become the BULL...and then they wear full sized jacket bars on the collar. Unfortunately, with the advent of coveralls and NWUs, this tradition has largely fallen by the wayside.

I was JORGE on my first ship for 9 months, and then BULL for three weeks! It's all good though...

Dave

#16 trubia26

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 12:40 PM

The hat in the picture has an incorrect bar; it should be a small sized one vice the large one.


Yes, maybe someone thought it looks better with that kind of badge and put it on there...but I have been searching for information (your help was really useful!) and I think I am sure that always is smaller than in US Army. thanks for your help!

#17 trubia26

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 12:42 PM

darling...guess we're going PC on the C? hahaha


Ups...I think I can´t understand the joke...(my english is not well enough)

#18 Brig

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:07 PM

Ups...I think I can´t understand the joke...(my english is not well enough)

I explained it in a PM...this is a family forum! :pinch:

#19 trubia26

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 08:37 PM

I explained it in a PM...this is a family forum! :pinch:


Hahaha! Now I understood the joke :lol: !


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