What is this shoulder patch?

[hcm7505]

Hello, I am new to this form and finally at an age where I can collect. My wife's grandfather served in the 84th Co 3rd battalion 6th Regiment. See the picture attached. I am trying to identify the shoulder patch. It resembles some of the stuff that I've seen online, but I don't quite see the Indian head? Could this possibly have been something he handmade? Any help would be greatly appreciated

[warguy]

I would definitely say handmade and a poor rendition of an Indianhead is in the center. These were the very first, earliest rendition of the shoulder patches worn by the Marines following the armistice as I recall. You don't see them much and it is really quite rare to see them on the dress blues, (in fact it is quite rare to see ANY patch on the dress blues in this time period, but it was rarely done). Is there a photography studio on this photo or more importantly a date?  Note the honorable discharge chevron on his left sleeve and wound chevron on his right. I am thinking this was likely taken in the fall of 1919 unless he came home early due to his wound(s)???? You would think he would be wearing one of the normally seen unit patches with the colored shape if this was the fall of 1919.  I am betting he might have returned early.  A very interesting photo to be sure. 

[warguy]

There is a great thread on this forum on the shoulder oatches of the 2nd division in WWI. It can be found here:

 

Start looking at post 74 for a description of the early 2nd division patch  like the one depicted in your photo worn by marines.Good luck! Kevin

[usmc1981]

Nice image. 

[hcm7505]

2 hours ago, warguy said:

I would definitely say handmade and a poor rendition of an Indianhead is in the center. These were the very first, earliest rendition of the shoulder patches worn by the Marines following the armistice as I recall. You don't see them much and it is really quite rare to see them on the dress blues, (in fact it is quite rare to see ANY patch on the dress blues in this time period, but it was rarely done). Is there a photography studio on this photo or more importantly a date?  Note the honorable discharge chevron on his left sleeve and wound chevron on his right. I am thinking this was likely taken in the fall of 1919 unless he came home early due to his wound(s)???? You would think he would be wearing one of the normally seen unit patches with the colored shape if this was the fall of 1919.  I am betting he might have returned early.  A very interesting photo to be sure. 

He was wounded at the battle of Belleau Wood. Shot twice in the arm. I even have his letter is from France. When he wrote home telling his parents about it. I couldn't find the ribbon for the longest time but found out it is the VFW ribbon. I'm surprised he does not have the world war. I victory metal nor the purple heart or something. But I guess his wounded Chevron is probably enough. I have an article in the Toledo newspaper that he had to go through some weird form of physical therapy for his left arm because of the wounds.

[warguy]

This is starting to make some sense. You should pull his records. Belleauwood was early in the summer 1918 (June-July) so he would have ended up in hospital for what was likely an extended period of time. If I was a betting man, I wouldn’t be surprised if he returned to the States in the winter/early spring, likely bringing this patch and others like it home with him. The photo was probably taken just before he left the Corps and he obviously decided to add the patch to his dress blues. Remember that there was no Purple heart medal in WWI, it was established in 1932. So only the wound stripe at that time denoted a wound in action. Those who were wounded in conflicts before 1932, could request a PH medal once it was established and the Government would send an engraved medal to the veteran. The records you will hopefully request might have that documentation. He would have certainly received a Victory medal….maybe the photo was taken before he received his??? I am not sure when they were distributed…..

 

He would have also warranted the FdG-(Foure de Guerre, I doubt my spelling is correct) what some refer to as the pogey rope. This was a red/green braid worn around the left shoulder of the uniform. The 4th Brigade, the fifth and sixth Marines (the fighting unit of WWI) received this from the French Government and were authorized to wear it (in fact those same units still wear it today). I do know that many of those were actually sent to the Marines who earned them in 1919-1920, so again, I am betting this image was taken well before that. 

 

This is a really special image. Alec Tulkoff, the author of “Equipping the Corps”, would probably love to add it in his Volume 2 on uniforms if he ever writes it. It is a rare patch to see in any image, but doubly rare to see that patch on a dress blue uniform (especially pre-1922, like this one). Some WWI Marine vets added their patches to their dress blues for wear in reunion or veterans events. The is a great photo taken in the 1930’s show. Marine wearing a dress blue uniform with a WWI unit patch on it  in the book referenced above, and I have a named dress blue tunic in my collection dating to the late 20;’s with a Fifth marine patch on it. Neither of those patches is the early one depicted in this photo, and again both of those uniforms are later, after holes were added in the collar for ega’s and the stripes went from seam to seam to small size.   This is a great photo for the Marine uniform historian! Good luck on your research and thanks for sharing. Kevin 

[warguy]

Correction to my last post, languages was never a strong suit. The braid worn is the Fouraguerre. I was trying to combine the Croix de Guerre and Fouraguerre while away from my references. I have a great memory, it is just extremely short!

[kfields]

A very nice image! 

There is the multi volume set for Ohio Soldiers, Sailors and Marines who served in WW1 so if you shared his name, one of us could look him up for you and tell you what it says.

[hcm7505]

3 hours ago, kfields said:

A very nice image! 

There is the multi volume set for Ohio Soldiers, Sailors and Marines who served in WW1 so if you shared his name, one of us could look him up for you and tell you what it says.

It is my wife's Grandfather John P. Macelwane. 

[kfields]

Found him in Volume 23!

 

[kfields]

I don't know the meaning of SOSH but probably some sort of hospital care? So definitely came back to the States early - Oct 11, 1918.