Ref Thread: French Made Second Pattern Army DSC

[Teamski]

John and Ski,

 

Thanks for the insight. Does the fact that it is a first pattern narrow down the date of receipt? Would he be one of the first few hundred to receive the medal during WWI?

 

I don't know if you can be sure that that was the case. The French made ones were purchasable, and he could have picked it up at any point during the war. Just a thought.

 

-Ski

[gauthieb3sxz]

I don't know if you can be sure that that was the case. The French made ones were purchasable, and he could have picked it up at any point during the war. Just a thought.

 

-Ski

 

 

I just contacted the seller and he let me know that he has another shot of the same soldier wearing a 2nd Army patch. I wonder if this may help track him down?

[LuftStalg1]

First off for me the cost of shipping back and forth is worth the experience I gain from having something in my hands to examine up close. Only once in the last 20 years have I not been able to return something I bought on-line from a dealer or via an auction site though the law did get involved once or twice and for one the auction insurance paid me and the guy lost his account. Having said that this is a new experience in hand I thought I would share.

 

I refer back to this early forum post on the Type 2 French DSC.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...p;hl=French+DSC

 

 

Ok here is some new light on an old subject. Picked this up on the net, giving it a reasonable doubt due to a replaced ribbon, but then I had it in hand.

 

 

1) Aside from the new ribbon, the rough edge is a big red flag. From photos posted on-line there is a lot that you simple can not see and often the sellers do not post photos to turn buyers away so you must have them in hand to really see it. In this case the medal has been cut around the entire edge using a jeweler’s saw. There is no edge left showing the original manufacturing markings. And thus no die markings of a possible original.

 

2) I pulled out the trusty 16x loops and got a good look at the surface. The next red flag, a pitted rough surface under magnification and the instant verdict of a cast copy.

 

3) On close inspection of the separate suspension knob the silver colored base metal this was made from is showing where the bronze plating / coating has worn through on the front and the back. Again the photos on line show highlights on this spot but photos often have highlights on the high spots so they can be deceiving until the item is in your hand.

 

4) Now there is another issue that hits on Kurt’s comment of the errors in Call of Duty. This one really should be the first next to the ribbon as it can clearly be seen in photos posted by the seller. The reverse design is a bit a skew rotationally. However this is also seen on page 97 of CoD as for mentioned by Kurt.

 

Lots of obvious issues with this close up so I will just post the photos for your enjoyment/education.

 

Still would love to have an early die struck 1st and 2nd pattern French piece for my collection. Original issue or not I think it is a work of art. Not trying to get you guys started on the French made pieces! Even a nice copy would work for me but it has to be at copy prices and not one of the new junk copies.

 

Needless to say this purchase is on the way back to its previous home.

[LuftStalg1]

Back side.

[LuftStalg1]

Rev angle.

[LuftStalg1]

Edge 1

[LuftStalg1]

Edge 2

[LuftStalg1]

edge 3

[Jack's Son]

Luft,

As you may have read in the past post, I am a fan of these Medals . I currently have a second pattern in my collection and am always looking for a good first pattern. As you are finding, the legitimate ones are priced too high in most cases, the other are re-strikes.

 

Keep looking, they're out there!! :thumbsup:

[Teamski]

Here are some comparison shots of mine. Hopefully, this helps in showing differences.

 

-Ski

[Teamski]

....

[Teamski]

.......

[LuftStalg1]

Here are some comparison shots of mine. Hopefully, this helps in showing differences.

 

-Ski

 

 

Thanks Ski, nice shots. Yup, you can just make out the vertical striations on the edge from the pinching process created during the die stamping. Much nicer! Another interesting note is the edge or the ribbon in blue. I guess this is caused during the manufacturing process of the ribbon.

 

Thanks, hope we get some more reference photos for this work of art!

 

Is yours numbered? Am I thinking properly about the first 100, and only 102 in total of the Type 1, of this design being numbered?

 

Thanks,

Mark

[Teamski]

Thanks Ski, nice shots. Yup, you can just make out the vertical striations on the edge from the pinching process created during the die stamping. Much nicer! Another interesting note is the edge or the ribbon in blue. I guess this is caused during the manufacturing process of the ribbon.

 

Thanks, hope we get some more reference photos for this work of art!

 

Is yours numbered? Am I thinking properly about the first 100, and only 102 in total of the Type 1, of this design being numbered?

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

NO! Remember, this is a French copy. Only the US made ones were numbered, and are the ones that are trully rare.

 

-Ski

[LuftStalg1]

Edge 4 showing the saw marks. Also I noticed the medal is thicker in the center. Is this true of the original?

[USMCRECON]

Here's the front and back of one of mine. This one has a French dumbbell mount inserted loosely through the ribbon. It also has a ribbon bar has been rather crudely sewn to the top, perhaps at one time to pin it to a uniform.

 

[USMCRECON]

And here's my other one. This one has a darker ribbon and a French double prong pin through the ribbon. It also has a matching ribbon bar but it's not attached to this medal.

 

[LuftStalg1]

And here's my other one. This one has a darker ribbon and a French double prong pin through the ribbon. It also has a matching ribbon bar but it's not attached to this medal.

 

 

Very nice! Thanks for the extra pictures. :thumbsup: The body of the eagle on the second one actually looks a bit different in shape and the arms of the cross are noticeable wider. :think: Are they different variations? One US made the other French? Does the edge have the typical markings left by the die and hub or were they hand worked? I have no hands on with the real thing so I am naturally curios about the variations. The copy I just sent back was nice but not worth the price with the poor job done by the jewelers saw on the edge. :dunno:

[medalcollector]

Hi guys,

 

I came across a person who said that he just bought 14 wwi French made DSCs. Reading the forum and searching around the internet, having 14 wwi original French DSCs is pretty rare. From the looks of it, it could be a 1940s or later reproduction. What are your thoughts on the authenticity of the medal shown here?

 

If it is real what's a fair price? He is asking for $75.

 

Thanks a lot in advance

[tarbridge]

It does not look like a early French made DSC from these pictures.The early French DSC' s had the French style pins. This medal looks to be a later mfg.Collectors copy or Reproduction.

[Adam R]

The DSC shown in the photos above is a poor quality modern fake. I wouldn't pay more than $25 for it. A real French copy of the first pattern DSC is worth $200 to $300.

[Hessian]

Hello

I picked this up at a show a few weeks ago. I believe it's French made DSC and has the twin prongs on the reverse. I would like some opinions on it from those of you who have handled originals.

 

Thanks
D

Back:

[Garth Thompson]

That one is a period original.

[Hermanus]

No problems with this medal. Its time original.

[1st Sgt CES]

I got this during the visit to the kids---Is this a French made DSC ? If so how old does this look ? Is it World War One issue ? Any input would be great --Thanks Mark