The P-51 won the war?

[Wharfmaster]

Why did Thunderbolt and Hellcat pilots make it home with heavy battle damage?  Air cooled radial engines.

 

 

 

W

[P-59A]

I think the following adds more to the P-51D's record as a bird that could hold its own in a changing world.  "Lt. Chuck Yeager of the 357th Fighter Group was one of the first American pilots to shoot down an Me 262, which he caught during its landing approach.[94][95] On 7 October 1944, Lt. Urban Drew of the 365th Fighter Group shot down two Me 262s that were taking off, while on the same day Lt. Col. Hubert Zemke, who had transferred to the Mustang equipped 479th Fighter Group, shot down what he thought was a Bf 109, only to have his gun camera film reveal that it may have been an Me 262.[96] On 25 February 1945, Mustangs of the 55th Fighter Group surprised an entire Staffel of Me 262As at takeoff and destroyed six jets."

[P-59A]

A little more info......"The 8th FC were credited with (IIRC) ~ 139 air credits against German jets of all types and ~110 air to air victories over the Me 262. The 56th got 7 as the 'all P-47' equipped and I think the 78th and 353rd got a couple more before transitioning to 51's. The P-51 was close to 100 and the 8th FC lost 12-15 fighters to Me 262s.

Also the P-51B scored a couple in fall 1944 (Ditto P-47M in 1945) - but have to check for totals."

[P-59A]

Red Tails flying the P-51D scored 3 ME 262's.    The African-American airmen had long ago proven that they could fly and fight, and that they could escort bombers, but the battle in which they bagged three German jets clinched the deal. In his interview with Defense Media Network, Brown said, “High-altitude escort was probably the most important mission in the war and shortened the war by about six months because it enabled the bombers to go a longer distance into Germany and destroy their infrastructure – their rail hubs, oil refineries, and so on.”

[P-59A]

On 3/9/2024 at 6:46 AM, Wharfmaster said:

Why did Thunderbolt and Hellcat pilots make it home with heavy battle damage?  Air cooled radial engines.

 

 

 

W

They were flying tanks. Heavy armor and engines that could run with the best of them. Some time ago on cable I was watching a show that detailed air battles over the years. One show was about a P-47 pilot who mixed it up with a Luftwaffe pilot. Something happened, either the P-47 pilot ran out of ammo or had a malfunction and broke it off to head home. The German pilot looking to make a kill lined up behind the P-47 and opened up. He hit the P-47 and it was still flying. He opened up a few more times and the bird was still flying. The German pilot pulled up next to the P-47 and gave a salute, waged his wings and peeled off. That P-47 pilot lived to tell the tail.

[Glidertrooper]

Technically - and I do stress technically - the fighter aircraft that won the war was the Hurricane.

 

If the Hurricane had not shot down so many Luftwaffe aircraft in 1940, the Battle of Britain would not have been won. And if Britain as a fighting nation had fallen, then there would have been no landing grounds for the USAAF to launch from in either England or North Africa to take the fight to Germany.

 

So as others have said, winning WW2 was a total team effort.

 

Cheers……John

[P-59A]

On 3/14/2024 at 12:50 PM, Glidertrooper said:

Technically - and I do stress technically - the fighter aircraft that won the war was the Hurricane.

 

If the Hurricane had not shot down so many Luftwaffe aircraft in 1940, the Battle of Britain would not have been won. And if Britain as a fighting nation had fallen, then there would have been no landing grounds for the USAAF to launch from in either England or North Africa to take the fight to Germany.

 

So as others have said, winning WW2 was a total team effort.

 

Cheers……John

Hey John, Hmmm, I'm gonna split a hair with you. It's generaly agreed that Hitler's decission to vector off hitting RAF fields and focus on London in retaliation for bombing Berlin opened a door for the RAF to recover. That opened the door for Hurricanes and Spitfires to hit back.

[Garandomatic]

18 hours ago, P-59A said:

Hey John, Hmmm, I'm gonna split a hair with you. It's generaly agreed that Hitler's decission to vector off hitting RAF fields and focus on London in retaliation for bombing Berlin opened a door for the RAF to recover. That opened the door for Hurricanes and Spitfires to hit back.

Awww man, so the aircraft that won the war was actually some lousy Heinkel or Junkers? Dang...

[Glidertrooper]

21 hours ago, P-59A said:

Hey John, Hmmm, I'm gonna split a hair with you. Its generaly agreed that Hitler's decission to vector off hitting RAF fields and focus on London in retaliation for bombing Berlin opened a door for the RAF to recover. That opened the door for Hurricanes and Spitfires to hit back.

Yep, agreed.

Which technically means Hitler won the war …for the Allies anyway!!

 

But seriously, interesting to watch the new ‘The Bloody Hundredth’ documentary piece to ‘Masters of the Air’ that states the P-51 turned the tide for the strategic bombing campaign, which had been failing up to that point through loss of their numbers.

 

Cheers……John

[P-59A]

On 3/16/2024 at 1:54 PM, Garandomatic said:

Awww man, so the aircraft that won the war was actually some lousy Heinkel or Junkers? Dang...

Strategic bombing had its place in  the old triad of land, sea and air. It still has its place in the new land, sea, air and space protocal. I have always agreed with TR, Talk softly, but carry a big stick! Big sticks work for adjusting attitudes and bombers do well if one needs to readjust the landscape.

[P-59A]

     I will go one step further, I have no doubt that if Sherman had had strategic bombing available to him he would have used it to clear his path through the South. My Grandmaw lived in Marrietta GA. 100 years after the fact she never forgave Sherman for what he did, but that was the point. Sherman did what he did to end the war. He understood the quickist way to do that was to bring hell with him and make the South scream. 

   In  the early years of WW2 the USAAF had a moral delema. To just fight soldiers would drag the war on for years. They tried that, but came to the same conclusion Sherman did. To end the war quickly one has to take out the infastructure. Civilians run the infastructure.

    We seem to forget that time and time again. During the Vietnam war Johnson had a moritorium on targets in the North. He took a moral high ground that prolonged the war and caused many deaths that could have been avoided. War isn't just killing enemy combatants. You also have to kill the ideology that motivates the enemy. 

    Sherman understood that. Strategic bombing lays the ground work to end a war if used properly.

[P-59A]

In recent times the only US General to understand what Sherman did was Norman Schwarzkopf. The opening days of Desert Storm were as good as the ideaology of Sherman has gotten in modern times. He was the right person at the right place at the right time with a proper understanding. Politics aside he did a good job.