1905 R.I.A. Bayonet

[LtRGFRANK]

Just picked this up at an Antique Mall for $160. Blade is 100% mint untouched black (parkerized?)condition

[LtRGFRANK]

Just picked this up at an Antique Mall for $160. Blade is 100% mint untouched black (parkerized?)condition[attachment=101000:uniforms_571.jp

I put down both Blued or Black. Was WWI parkerizing Black or was it grayish like WWII stuff

[Greg Robinson]

NICE...and I believe that was the wartime blueing....not parkerization. That didn't start until 1919.

[LtRGFRANK]

Thanks. I was hoping someone would say it was blued. I don't think this bayonet was ever issued.

[GWS]

What was the serial number on the opposite side? I ask only because I also have one of these blued 1918 dated M1905 bayonets in my stuff and wanted to see if they might be close in that respect. A photo isn't necessary, just the number please. I concour that you made an excellent buy on a getting-harder-to-find-everyday bayonet and scabbard. Nice find!

 

 

PS--Mine is numbered 340349-1918-RIA

[LtRGFRANK]

The serial # is 308392. My son is in Calif training in the Desert so I don't have access to our WWI Munitions Book. Does anyone know how many Bayonets Rock Island Arsenal made. My son doesn't think it was that many compared to Springfield

[GWS]

Brophy's "The 1903 Springfield Rifles" book shows a chart with the serial numbers and corresponding dates for both RIA and Springfield from 1906 to 1922. Only a total quantity for both armories combined is given but earlier in the text it is stated that Springfield made over 1 million of the M1905's in that period. Given the highest observed serial number was 1,195,240, one could then conclude that RIA made approximately 200,000 of that total, or about 1 out of 6 M1905 bayonets made from 1906 to 1922. RIA did not produce any from 1913 to 1917 and none after 1919. The serial numbers for both our M1905's falls into the range of bayonets made at RIA in 1918 which is 305,211 to 410,543 or about half the total ever manufactured at RIA. Only about 7000 were made at RIA in 1919, so the rest of their production (88,000 approx.) was made from 1906 to 1912. The first 2100 or so made at RIA in 1906 were not serialized, and I have one of these in my small bayonet collection also.

[LtRGFRANK]

Brophy's "The 1903 Springfield Rifles" book shows a chart with the serial numbers and corresponding dates for both RIA and Springfield from 1906 to 1922. Only a total quantity for both armories combined is given but earlier in the text it is stated that Springfield made over 1 million of the M1905's in that period. Given the highest observed serial number was 1,195,240, one could then conclude that RIA made approximately 200,000 of that total, or about 1 out of 6 M1905 bayonets made from 1906 to 1922. RIA did not produce any from 1913 to 1917 and none after 1919. The serial numbers for both our M1905's falls into the range of bayonets made at RIA in 1918 which is 305,211 to 410,543 or about half the total ever manufactured at RIA. Only about 7000 were made at RIA in 1919, so the rest of their production (88,000 approx.) was made from 1906 to 1912. The first 2100 or so made at RIA in 1906 were not serialized, and I have one of these in my small bayonet collection also.

Thanks for that info. I can't believe my luck lately. Everytime I go out I score. I'm running short of money. I will have to stay home for a couple of weeks until my retirment check and Soc Sec arrives. Robert

[bayonetman]

Brophy's serial number ranges are based on his observations of dated specimens. In recent years some of the ranges have been shortened or lengthened based on further observations.

 

I have found RIA 1918 dated bayonets to run from about 304,000 to about 410,000. There is overlap at the end of that range, as #403775 is dated 1919 while #409988 is dated 1918. The lower number is probably an aberration based on a few that were serial numbered a month or so prior to being dated - sort of the "bottom of the barrel" syndrome at the end of the war. When the pressure to produced bayonets stopped with the Armistice on November 11, 1918 some numbered blades were not put through the final marking process as quickly as they normally would have, or were held back for a minor flaw.

 

Just as a note, from what data is available, the first approximately 75,000 RIA bayonets were not serial numbered. I have yet to see a dated one dated 1906, have seen #75485 dated 1907.

 

308392 is very early 1918 and was certainly blued when manufactured. The blue is dark but definitely shows as blue in bright sunlight, the dark Parkerizing that began about #408000 or so is definitely a very dark gray in sunlight. The blue is "rough" due to the final polishing stage being discontinued as being unnecessary and actually beneficial for a combat bayonet as it is less reflective.

[LtRGFRANK]

The finish on mine is very smooth. I will take it out in the sunlight tomorrow. I was kind of sure it was "blued" but was going to wait for those more knowlegable than me to check in

[Fritz]

Nice pickup, these are getting tougher to find, RIA bayonets are always a bit tougher to find. When I collected 03s I always liked getting a RIA rifle or bayonet kinda made my day. Congrats!

 

Fritz

[LtRGFRANK]

Brophy's serial number ranges are based on his observations of dated specimens. In recent years some of the ranges have been shortened or lengthened based on further observations.

 

I have found RIA 1918 dated bayonets to run from about 304,000 to about 410,000. There is overlap at the end of that range, as #403775 is dated 1919 while #409988 is dated 1918. The lower number is probably an aberration based on a few that were serial numbered a month or so prior to being dated - sort of the "bottom of the barrel" syndrome at the end of the war. When the pressure to produced bayonets stopped with the Armistice on November 11, 1918 some numbered blades were not put through the final marking process as quickly as they normally would have, or were held back for a minor flaw.

 

Just as a note, from what data is available, the first approximately 75,000 RIA bayonets were not serial numbered. I have yet to see a dated one dated 1906, have seen #75485 dated 1907.

 

308392 is very early 1918 and was certainly blued when manufactured. The blue is dark but definitely shows as blue in bright sunlight, the dark Parkerizing that began about #408000 or so is definitely a very dark gray in sunlight. The blue is "rough" due to the final polishing stage being discontinued as being unnecessary and actually beneficial for a combat bayonet as it is less reflective.

My son just returned from training in the Calif Desert and looked up RIA bayonets in our US Munitions Book of WWI. They state RIA only made 37,00 bayonets during WWI. So unless they skipped a whole bunch of Serial numbers someones info is not accurate. I would think the book put out by the War Dept show know the numbers. Does anyone else have the book and have they found if the info in the book is accurate.