Thompson dispatching

[nicolas75]

Hello to all,

 

What is the dispatching plan for Thompson in the infantry during ww2 ?

 

Nco's, Co's ? in what extend ?

 

Thanks

[gwb123]

In think our friend in France is asking how were Thompson Submachine Guns assigned within infantry units during WWII?

[nicolas75]

that's it !

[J_Andrews]

A cautionary note: The number of TSMGs in actual use often far exceeded whatever was on a unit's Table of Organization & Equipment (TO&E).

 

For example, in the Parachute Infantry going to Normandy, various units told their troops to choose whether they wanted -- a Garand, a Thompson or a carbine, no matter their usually assigned weapon. In this "contest" the carbine was the big loser, with some troops "trading up" to a Garand and others going for more close-in firepower.

 

One 507th PIR vet told me that he wound up with an M-3 "Grease Gun" that he did not sign for -- it was a "gift" with no paper trail. By TO&E he had an M-1A1 carbine and he would have chosen a Thompson, but they were "fresh out". He attributed this to the problems with the M-3 upon its introduction to the 82nd and 101st in Spring 1944 (and the supply paperwork involved).

 

In troop tests, it often jammed and/or just stopped firing, and all were withdrawn, suddenly (probably in late April). Ordnance determined that the major flaw was in the heat-treating of the ejector and tried to inspect and replace as necessary the bad ones. But almost no one wanted them back, and there were lots of troops wanting SMGs, so truckloads of TSMGs were found.

 

(Another vet, Bn supply sgt in the 504th, confirmed that there was a big shakeout of TSMGs for Normandy-bound units; as the 504th and he himself were not going, they "humped" truckloads of Thompsons for the other units. His personal quest was for magazines, which he stole from USAAF stocks and mooched from MP units.) The 507th guy thoroughly tested his M-3 in England and no problems with it at all. He said he cut off some of the recoil springs to make it fire faster -- ??

[QED4]

That is an interesting question that I never really thought about before so after consulting several books it appears, officially at least, that the infantry did not use them but we all know that is not true. According the US Army Hand Book 1939-1945 an infantry squad was 12 man with 10 M-1 rifles, 1 BAR, and one Springfield for the sharpshooter. Three squads made up a rifle platoon. Three Rifle Platoons and a Weapons Platoon (with MGs, mortars, etc) made up a Company. No mention of SMGs. According to The WWII Order of Battle an Infantry Div had 90 SMG broken down as 12 to the Ordnance Co, 32 to the Signal Co, 30 to the Recon Troop, and 16 to the Engineer Bn none to the Infantry Regts. But we all know that they were in the hands of the infantry so I would assume that distribution was as available and at the discretion of the commander. They must have been carried some where on the TO&E but I sure couldn't find it.

[J_Andrews]

Although TO&E's changed during the course of the war, here are some examples:

 

Parachute Infantry Rifle Company TO&E 7-37

 

1 Jul 41 127 men 100 rifles no carbines 13 SMGs 12 LMGs

 

17 Feb 42 same 94 8 same same

 

24 Feb 44 same 106 21 6 same

 

1 Aug 44 130 81 49 same 9 4 bazookas

 

16 Dec 44 * 176 144 32 same same 9 BARs same

 

13 Sep 45 193 148 39 same same same same

 

* Platoons added a third rifle squad

 

Airborne Division

 

15 Oct 42 8,505 2,403 4,252 none 171 84 182

 

24 Feb 44 8,596 3,066 4,803 148 179 92 445

 

1 Aug 44 8,556 2,550 4,979 211 169 72 466

 

16 Dec 44 12,979 6,169 4,961 383 260 300 567

 

24 May 45 same same 4,962 same same same same

 

These figures do not include Rifles, Other, namely M1903's used to launch grenades and M1903A4 sniper rilfes. In Oct 42 there were 559 in the Div but in Dec 44 only 81 (and those were on paper as M-1C's).

 

The Abn Divs' commanding officers and underlings were in the US when The Bulge commenced -- to tell washington how displeased they were with the Aug 44 paper reorg (not implemented in the ETO). The 16 Dec 44 version is what they countered with, and was adopted in the field.