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WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS 1892 HELMET DEVICE


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#1 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:01 AM

I have had this 1892 Spiked helmet EGA for many years and was never able to find another like it. First off, I know without the cutout mouth most would pronounce it as a fake. I know you can age brass to make it look alot older. Putting all that aside, when you handle this and look at the detail, worn spots along with damaged wing tip and bent  anchor, it's hard to write off.

 I compared it to another one that I also had, one that most consider as the accepted style. First thing you notice is they are both the size, detail and same thickness but the darker one is very hard to bend. The darker one weighs 1oz. the bright brass one weighs .9oz.

Another interesting thing on the back is there are four brass prongs for attaching to a helmet instead of the usual stud with nut and two anti-movement prongs. When you look at the back it never had the stud or two prongs?

It is possible after studying it with a magnifying glass that maybe the mouth was never punched out properly? I still find it to be an interesting piece.

I look forward to hearing from everyone on this.

I will now buckle my seat belt!

Ken

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#2 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:02 AM

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#3 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:02 AM

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#4 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:03 AM

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#5 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:04 AM

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#6 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:05 AM

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#7 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:06 AM

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#8 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:06 AM

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#9 Brig

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 12:35 PM

Where's Cuba? Is it missing entirely or did the flash wash it out?

#10 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 12:56 PM

Brig,

 It is there but hard to see with the flash and wear. I will try to get a better close-up of it in a bit.

Ken



#11 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 01:26 PM

Hope this helps see Cuba.

Ken

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#12 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 01:27 PM

Another. It's hard to get a good close-up.

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#13 Brig

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 01:45 PM

Solder looks old, details look good...color is a big question. Doubt the brass uniformly patinaed that way on its own, I think it was intentionally done...that said, we need to keep in mind that these early stamped emblems were also incorporated onto other items, like drums, and that could be the purpose here.

It's one definitely worth a good look, I hesitate to say it might actually be good. Any indication there was an attempt to punch the beak?

#14 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:06 PM

Brig,

 You can see the indent for the mouth/beak from both sides so it has to be pretty thin but I didn't see and indication of trying to punch it through.

Ken



#15 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:46 AM

Sorry to say I don’t that warm fuzzy feeling, in hand examination needed...

#16 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 04:38 AM

Sorry to say I don’t that warm fuzzy feeling, in hand examination needed...

 

teufelhunde.ret,

I agree, you need to look at it in hand. Having said that, what are your concerns?

Ken



#17 usmcaviator

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:09 AM

Ken,

It depends on angle of photography, these are hard to tell in the photos given.  I always go by certain "tells" one of the most important, being the lines of latitude.  On all real examples, the lines curve with the globe, fakes/repos (for now) all stay straight across the globe.  It's kind of hard to explain, but if you had repo and real one in your hand, you would see exactly what I am talking about.  So depending on how they are photographed the latitude line "tell" can't be easily assessed. 

 

All other on the dress one looks good to me, will validate weights of my known authentic ones. 

 

Darker one, again, cant tell based off angle on the lines of latitude, never have seen that specific method of attachment, but have yet to see many examples of the bronzed saddle blanket EGA, which is what this would be in case you didn't know (prescribed by 1904 regulations I think).  I have one, but it is a bronzed version of a regular spiked helmet version, post and all.  I have absolutely no issues with the patina, and the wear looks perfect to me for such a piece.   The beak....is interesting, it should be cut out, but you can see where maybe just the stamp didn't cut all the way.  It also may that the saddle blanket ones were made by a different maker.  I personally think it may be gtg. 

 

If you want to send me other side profile shots (lay insignia on its back and get me an entire side profile shot of the globe), I'd be happy to take a closer look. 

 

Mike



#18 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 01:18 PM

Mike,

 The latitude. lines do curve with the globe. 

 I thought the same thing as much as it might be for the saddle blanket .

When I get a chance I will try to post some pictures showing the curve to the latitude lines.

I don't know what to make of the beak not being punched?

Thanks,

Ken



#19 usmcaviator

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 01:55 PM

Oh, and here is something that the other tour guides won't tell you......the dual prong configuration, as seen here, is exactly in line with authentic "first pattern" 1892 dress EGA versions, which are very seldom seen.  I picked up my first attributed 1892 dress helmet prong-backed EGA last year to a Marine that served starting in 1894.  Albeit, it uses three attachment points.  I think it would make perfect sense for this metal insignia to have an additional mounting point, being on a saddle blanket.  This is probably one of the reasons it was easier to use leather insignia, which the Corps used well into the mid-1920s.



#20 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 04:32 PM

Couple more pics hopefully showing the curved latitude lines.

Ken

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#21 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 04:33 PM

another



#22 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 04:34 PM

ok one more time

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#23 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 04:35 PM

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#24 6th.MG.BN

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 04:36 PM

for good measure

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#25 usmcaviator

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 06:04 AM

Ken,

I like it.  I am pretty sure you have a rarely seen bronze saddle blanket insignia.  The weights of mine differ somewhat due to construction material and mounting attachment, but are all .8 -.9 oz, (heaviest was weighed with proper securing nut).  I am sure your darker one is a tad bit heavier due to the length of the prongs and 4 attachment points. 

 

Mike




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