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Need Help With ID On Army Khaki Uniforms - 1903 P.I. Photo


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#1 OD-Blue-Top

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 06:27 PM

I'm sure some of you can identify this type khaki uniform worn by three of these soldiers in this photo taken in the Philippines in 1903.  My uncle is in this photo, and he served in the Philippines from 1899 -1907.  He went over with the 35th Volunteer Infantry, then enlisted in the Regular Army Medical Corps while there.  The seven years he served in the Philippines counted double, and gave him fourteen years toward retirement.  He retired in1924.  I have all of his enlistment, promotion and discharge records from 1899 through 1924.

 

I was wondering if this type uniform was manufactured in the Philippines?

 

My uncle is center of the back row.  Looks like he was having a little trouble keeping up with the uniform standards set by the other soldiers in this medical unit!

 

Thanks, James

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  • DSCF5865.jpg


#2 Retired Army Noncom

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 07:23 PM

The one center standing has the M1898 and I see the buttons for shoulder straps but no straps.



#3 world war I nerd

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:07 PM

Based on the position of the breast pockets (the top of the pocket situated midway between the second and third button) and the absence of shoulder straps, I'd guess that your uncle is wearing the second pattern 1899 Khaki Cotton Service Coat, Specification No. 493, adopted on December 15, 1899. Both the first and second pattern 1899 Khaki Cotton Service Coats had removable shoulder straps

 

The breast pockets were similarly positioned on the two earlier pattern khaki cotton service coats (1898  & 1st pattern 1899).

 

However, the shoulder straps were sewn onto the 1898 pattern coat.

 

While both the first & second pattern 1899 Khaki Cotton Service Coats had removable shoulder straps. The shoulder straps on the first pattern 1898 coat were held on by cloth loops, which would likely be visible in your posted photo. The shoulder straps on the second pattern 1899 coat were attached by two hook & eyes, which may not be visible in your posted photo.

 

Service coat photo courtesy of Advance Guard Militaria.com

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  • Spec 493 1899 Khaki Cotton Service Coat.jpg


#4 world war I nerd

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:15 PM

The other three soldiers appear to be wearing the 1901 Khaki Cotton Service Coat, Specification No. 551, adopted on August 20, 1901. On this pattern the top of the breast pockets were repositioned so that they were even with the coat's second button. The shoulder straps on this coat were also held on by hooks & eyes.

 

Service coat photo courtesy of Advance Guard Militaria.com

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  • Spec 551 1901 Khaki Cotton Service Coat.jpg


#5 world war I nerd

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:22 PM

I can't explain why the collars on the two different coats worn in the posted photo appear to be vastly different, because the two collars should be more or less the same.

 

Here are examples of the 1898 sewn on shoulder strap (left) - the first pattern 1899 (Specification No. 467, adopted on June 9, 1899) detachable shoulder strap's cloth loop (center) & the second pattern 1899 detachable shoulder strap's hooks & eyes (right).

 

Photos courtesy of Advance Guard Militaria.com

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  • Sewn-Loop & Hook & Eye Shoulder Straps.jpg


#6 world war I nerd

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:24 PM

Finally, a side by side comparison of the second pattern 1899 (left) and 1901 Khaki Cotton Service Coats.

 

Photos courtesy of Advance Guard Militaria.com

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  • 1899 & 1901 Service Coats.jpg


#7 OD-Blue-Top

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 07:46 AM

DSCF5874.jpg The high collars on the three coats is what threw me, as I have never seen one where the collar stands this high, also the pocket flaps seem to have a little more of a pronounced point than the ones in nerd's examples.  It looks like L.E. Fair is wearing one of the first patterns without the stand and fall collar.  I tried to get better close up photos of the collars.

These are the differences that made me wonder if the three tall collar coats might have been made in the Philippines?

 

The turn of the century uniforms are my favorite and I have enjoyed all the post showcasing them on this forum, most were posted about 10 years ago.  I know that collectors love to see their "special interest" posted, and not being an exception, would like to see more of the old uniforms posted

just to rev me up a little. 

 

 

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#8 world war I nerd

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 10:51 AM

Because the collars are so tall, regulation coats had to have been modified or else the entire coat was either tailor or contractor made to army specifications (except for the collar) in some place like the Philippines.

 

Here's another guy, who I presume to be in the Philippines wearing a later pattern khaki cotton service coat with a similar high collar ... Maybe it was locally made? Photo courtesy of the John Adams-Graf collection

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  • Khaki Coat PI Close Up JAG.jpg

Edited by world war I nerd, 03 March 2018 - 10:53 AM.


#9 Dragoon

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 12:47 PM

Here are some photos of a similar coat, ignore the buttons. It has no pointed cuffs although that is difficult to determine with regards to those in the photo.

 

Kurt.

 

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  • P9090064c.jpg


#10 OD-Blue-Top

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 01:13 PM

Thanks to both world war I nerd & Dragoon.  I think you have the coat in question nailed down.

 

Kurt, the photos you posted of the cavalry sergeant's uniform appear to be same as in my photos.  I am also unable to make out if the coats have pointed cuffs in my photos.  The sewn on loops for the shoulder straps in your photo look exactly like what the Hospital Sergeant is using to attach his (double loop) straps to the shoulder of his coat. 



#11 Dragoon

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 03:43 PM

James thanks for posting the photo, equally it is good for me to see the same coat in a dated period photo.




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