A Pre-Victory .38 Smith & Wesson

[thorin6]

There are times when one wonders why he bought a certain item. I wonder that as I handled this .38 Pre-Victory pistol, but it is what it is, so here it goes. The story is that this is a bring back from Afghanistan. The serial number 960489 (no V prefix) places it in the Pre-Victory period between serial numbers 700,000 and 1,000,000 which were provided to the UK under lend lease firing the .38/200 cartridge, although it's marked .38 S&W CT on the barrel. There are no export marks like "ENGLAND" or British proofs. The grips are consistent with those pistols, and all five serial numbers are matching (bottom strap, under the barrel, on the cylinder, behind the ejector, and on the inside of the right grip) and the frame and yoke numbers are also matching. It has an "L" on the frame under the yoke and under the left grip. The top strap is marked with "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" and the bottom strap has the inspector and proof marks ("WB" and the Ordnance Bomb). Although it's missing the firing pin and rivet (on the way at the moment), it's been looked at by a gunsmith and, despite the outer corrosion, is fine for shooting. The bore is amazingly good, strong lands and groves, and the cylinder, although dirty, is solid. It cycles fine and has good lock-up. I wonder if most of the outer corrosion is blood splatter, as the inner parts show little pitting; primarily everything is just a little dirty and is cleaning up fine. The best thing on the pistol are the grips, which have a few nicks and dings as would be expected, but are very solid.

I've got plenty of pictures, just showing a few of them. Comments are welcome.

[thorin6]

Other side:

[thorin6]

Serial Numbers:

 

[thorin6]

Under the barrel:

 

[thorin6]

On the cylinder:

 

[thorin6]

UNITED STATES PROPERTY

[thorin6]

Inspector mark and proof/acceptance mark

[thorin6]

The bore:

[thorin6]

Inside the cylinder recess:

 

[thorin6]

And a grip:

 

[everforward]

The WB inspection stamp (Waldemar Broberg) would date the revolver to sometime in early-mid 1942, IIRC....I had one of these about 25 years ago- it was about a 95% gun and parkerized, and the grips were non-checkered. Pretty sure that didn’t have any British proofs either......probably used as a plant guard sidearm or something similar.

 

I ended up selling it or trading it away because I wanted one that was Navy marked with a 4” barrel and .38 spl.

[Lsparks]

This would be a great addition to a collection of Victories. I’m thinking of doing exactly that.

 

This fits the Victory narrative. This is simply a pre- Lend-Lease fun and prior to the US Gov’t assuming control of weapon production.

 

S&W flubbed a Brit weapon design and owed the Brits big time. They paid the debt with pistols.

 

The Brits have been involved in the Mid-East for a very long time, so it’s pretty fitting that this thing ended up in AFG, though without a document, it’s just a great story.

 

Nice piece!

 

 

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[Charlie Flick]

Thorin6:

 

That's an interesting pre-Victory. From the Victory Model Database I can estimate for you that your revolver likely shipped from the S&W factory in April, 1942. It was shipped from the factory to the Hartford Ordnance Depot in Springfield, Mass. from which it was trans-shipped to the UK or other parts of the Empire. A small number of these never left the USA but most went overseas.

 

It was indeed a Lend Lease gun as distinguished from those guns purchased directly from S&W by the British Purchasing Commission. That explains why these guns bear the UNITED STATES PROPERTY legend on the top strap. They technically remained US property and should not ordinarily have had foreign military property markings applied during WW2. (Post-war many of these guns were never returned to the US government and were gifted or abandoned to friendly foreign military forces. For example, the Australian marked guns have property markings that were applied post-war.)

 

If the story that came with your revolver (Afghan bring-back) is true it would not have had any import markings only if the return was via a duffle bag or was otherwise sub rosa. Import markings were required on guns imported into the USA post-1968.

 

As the stocks are serial number matching you know that they are original to the gun. However, when they left the factory they were smooth walnut. The checkering they now display was added in the field.

 

The finish was originally a phosphate type similar to parkerizing.

 

There's a lot of mileage on that revolver, but that means it also has a lot of history attached to it. Thanks for posting it.

 

Regards,

Charlie

 

[kwill]

...and prior to the US Gov’t assuming control of weapon production....

It's a tangential issue but the S&W plant was federalized during WWI but that ended with the Armistice. S&W retained control before, during and after WWII.

[thorin6]

Charlie,

Thanks for the information. The individual I bought it from last weekend said he brought it back from Afghanistan with official bring-back papers, although he did not have those papers when he sold me the pistol. He originally intended to have it restored, but when he figured out the cost, he decided to sell it and use the money to do something else with another firearm. I had no reason to doubt him, but it's always by the gun, not the story. The grips interested me, but I thought they didn't look as crisp as the factory checkering I've seen in other S&W .38s; now I know why.

[Lsparks]

It's a tangential issue but the S&W plant was federalized during WWI but that ended with the Armistice.  S&W retained control before, during and after WWII.

I would have to find my source, but I did not read it as saying S&W was Federalized. I read it to mean that the Gov’t controlled what they made and how it was dispersed. S&W personnel likely ran operations and the manufacturing floor. This makes sense when coupled with materiel restrictions common during WWII.

 

 

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