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USMC Tank Corps device?


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#1 SgtMaddoxUSMC

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 10:00 PM

So I have seen this referenced several places, but to my knowledge, this was never worn. Anyone have any information regarding whether Marines ever wore a Tank Corps device? Or photos?
IMG_0001 (1).jpg



#2 SgtMaddoxUSMC

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 10:01 PM

s-l1600 (7).jpg



#3 Alec

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 11:00 PM

I've never seen it, but could be one of those rare worn items while in camp or training only.

#4 BagmanL6

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 08:46 AM

Good Afternoon - Just a thought but since the branch insignia includes the Gunner bursting bomb and the others seem more combat support (tank corps) and combat service support is it possible these were intended for Warrant Officers?



#5 SgtMaddoxUSMC

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 09:16 AM

That would make sense, but I don't think anyone has seen any photographic documentation or uniform orders specifically describing this insignia.  Just a few odd recruiting pieces I have seen.  



#6 Justin B.

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 10:34 AM

I have never seen any official regs with that insignia, but that's not to say it wasn't authorized for a short time. It is very similar to the Army Infantry Tanks insignia in the 1920s:
http://www.tioh.hqda...&menu=Uniformed

Going by the NCO insignia illustrated, it looks like the materials date between 1937, when the specialty devices on the chevrons were eliminated, and 1943, when the first sergeant was moved up to the top grade.
 

Good Afternoon - Just a thought but since the branch insignia includes the Gunner bursting bomb and the others seem more combat support (tank corps) and combat service support is it possible these were intended for Warrant Officers?


No, the warrant devices corresponded to the actual warrant rank titles pre-1943: Marine Gunner, Quartermaster Clerk, Quartermaster Clerk (A&I), and Pay Clerk (and "Chief" versions of each for CWOs).

Justin B.

Edited by Justin B., 02 February 2016 - 10:36 AM.


#7 BagmanL6

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 12:05 PM

Thanks for the info Justin.  Just so I can keep it straight in my head, is the Gunner device in the OP for the Infantry Gunner I'm thinking of from that period or is it indicative of something else?  Thanks.



#8 SgtMaddoxUSMC

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 12:38 PM

The Marine Gunner is the Infantry Weapons Officer.  He is a Warrant Officer who specializes in anything and everything infantry related.



#9 BagmanL6

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 12:48 PM

Check.  I probably didn't ask my question clear enough or misread Justin's post.  My understanding of what Justin offered was that the insignias on your document were for the SNCO/NCO chevrons and that WO/CWOs had different insignia.  My confusion was in the bursting bomb being listed as Gunner which I took to mean the Infantry Warrant Officer.  We had one of the first "Gunners" in the late 80s in 2/4.  I seem to recall him explaining the insignia came from the tradition of the WO Gunners of the 50s.  Interestingly I also worked for a Colonel who sat on the first Gunner selection board and relayed General Gray's intent was to re-establish the salty Gunners he recalled from the 50s.

 

I always like a good mystery!



#10 Justin B.

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 03:36 PM

Thanks for the info Justin. Just so I can keep it straight in my head, is the Gunner device in the OP for the Infantry Gunner I'm thinking of from that period or is it indicative of something else? Thanks.

Marine Gunner and Chief Marine Gunner were the "line" warrant officers, contrasted with the pay/quartermaster clerk WOs mentioned above. They could come from infantry NCOs but also aviation, communications, artillery, ordnance or motor transport. Things were somewhat different from now, because "warrant officer" was a class of officer, like commissioned or non-commissioned officers, but the actual rank title would be "marine gunner," "quartermaster clerk" etc.

The insignia were also a little different. CWOs wore gold and blue bars, more like commissioned officers, WOs just used the specialty device. Rather than try to explain it, here is a quick and crude drawing of how they were worn, using the gunner bombs as an example:

marine_wo_badges.jpg

In 1943 the Marines realized that "gunner" and "clerk" didn't really fit all the different types of WOs there actually were, so Congress changed the titles to simply "Warrant Officer" and "Commissioned Warrant Officer, " they both started wearing gold and red bars and the specialty devices were abolished.

usmc_wo_bars.jpg

One thing that is wrong in the illustration in the original post was the original dress gunner bombs were silver, not gold. The bomb insignia for marine gunner WOs was brought back in 1956. Sorry if I've taken the thread too far off tack!

Justin B.



#11 Salvage Sailor

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 03:38 PM

Nicely done Justin, thanks



#12 BagmanL6

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 03:40 PM

Great information Justin.  Thanks for taking the time to explain it.  I've learned quite a bit.  Thanks.



#13 Justin B.

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 05:41 PM

My pleasure.

#14 normaninvasion

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 10:06 AM

Justin, thank you very much for the info and diagram. As my gr uncle was a CWO in the 1920s-30s and it was very confusing regarding the placement of insignia.

 

I believe this question has come up a couple of times on the Forum.  Jeff



#15 Justin B.

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 01:10 PM

Justin, thank you very much for the info and diagram. As my gr uncle was a CWO in the 1920s-30s and it was very confusing regarding the placement of insignia.
 
I believe this question has come up a couple of times on the Forum.  Jeff


Now I wish I had made it look a little nicer! But glad to be of help.

There is a great photo of a 1930s CMG here:
http://www.usmilitar...unner-insignia/

Justin B.

#16 SgtMaddoxUSMC

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 07:43 PM

Since we are talking about department insignia / gunner bombs / WO bars, here is my little work in progress:
IMG_0002.jpg



#17 SgtMaddoxUSMC

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 07:44 PM

IMG_0003.jpg



#18 BagmanL6

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:33 AM

Great collection. Very nice.



#19 Justin B.

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 06:58 AM

Terrific! Those departmental devices are rare, especially the first type pay dept. and the silver QM.

Keep on the lookout for the rounded-top, false embroidered blue and gold CWO bar!

Justin B.

#20 SgtMaddoxUSMC

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:38 AM

They are always on my radar!  I hope some show up sometime soon!  And I still need to get all the mates for the opposite sides (minus the newer paymasters).  The band lyres aren't all that common either, I still need the subdued bronze version.




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