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Mismatched colors of webbing

Started by General Apathy , Jan 25 2007 12:58 PM

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#1 General Apathy

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 12:58 PM

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I just read Bilko's post on 'Carbine & Pistol Pouches', in post #19 of that topic, he wonders about a pouch being made in different colors of material and the reasons for that.

The M1943 shovel cover I am showing was made by the Jersey Quartermaster Depot in 1945, it is made with four different colors of material, the Army appears not to give a damn about matching colors, but sixty years on the re-enactors do.

I have hung onto this particular M1943 shovel cover for years, as I love showing it to all the guys that want matching color webbing, the whole caboodle, the suspenders, belt, water bottle, first aid, musette etc etc. I want to know why they think that it should all match when it was made by different manufacturers, at different dates, with different rolls of material, dyed in different vats. I have in the past had whole bunches of equipment in quantity, sometimes even the same item by the same manufacturer has color variations as they have started new rolls of material, it was not a perfect science dying material. Also with the thousands and sometime millions of items being made and their expected lifespan it was not important. The expected lifespan of a Jeep was only three months, so what life did they expect on webbing.

When all the new style M1943 designated items were designed they were designed in 'O.D. Green', 'Tan' was no longer a desired color. M1943 shovel covers technically should not exist and all the first patterns dated 1943 generally prove that. However some 'tan' ones do appear but generally with a 1944 or 1945 date. I don't think that a unit, a squad, a platoon would have all been identically dressed even if they had just walked out of the supply store. Certainly the shovel cover shown above would not have thousand of duplicates out there.

p.s. Try reading the web-page of the reproduction manufacturer 'At The Front' on this little subject of color.

#2 craig_pickrall

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 01:16 PM

Ken, if we can get enough of this stuff together maybe we can have a complete mismatched set.

Carbine set

Carbine_Mag_Pouches_3A.jpg
Carbine_Mag_Pouches_3B.jpg

I always liked those lower two FA Pouches.

13A_First_Aid_Pouch_Plate.jpg

#3 General Apathy

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 01:30 PM

Thanks for your offer to build up a bunch of mis-match until we could dress a guy up, that would be fun to see what the finish would look like.

#4 craig_pickrall

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 01:35 PM

Lets see if some other stuff shows up. Maybe we can get a good set together and you can use it as an example for re-enactors.

#5 Gregory

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 10:09 AM

Thanks for your offer to build up a bunch of mis-match until we could dress a guy up, that would be fun to see what the finish would look like.

:)

I may add for this guy my three-tone canteen cover manufactured in 1945 by the JQMD.

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#6 leicanthrope

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:37 AM

Here's my two-tone example:

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#7 craig_pickrall

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 08:06 AM

It looks like this thread has started to draw some interest. I am making a pass through my pics looking for items to add at random.

Compass pouch

COMPASS_11.jpg
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Cartridge belt

This is a mismatched left and right side. The pockets are close to the same color on both sides but the flaps are different colors giving a 3 tone effect.

Cartridge_Belt___OD_3.jpg

#8 craig_pickrall

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 08:10 AM

Does an M1910 or M1928 Haversack in OD7 qualify? Both of these are late war re-dyes.

8_M1928_FRONT_OD_REDYE.jpg
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#9 craig_pickrall

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 08:13 AM

M1943 Field Pack

Jungle_Pack_2A___Front___OD.jpg
Jungle_Pack_2B___Rear___OD.jpg

#10 craig_pickrall

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 08:17 AM

M1936 Suspenders

9_M1936_MB_Bag__1A__Rear.jpg

#11 Greg Robinson

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 08:52 AM

One of my more colorful web gear items. Made by LONG in April 1918 it has three color shades: an olive color at the bottom, mustard tan on the flap and rear, and very light green on the edging. And even the weave is different, the mustard tan canvas is tightly woven while the bottom olive shade piece is coarse weave. It has "USMC / Phila Dept" stamped inside the flap and while I normally regard these as "fantasy" items I'm not so sure about this one. Such variations in color are typical of the Marine Corps as is the use of that mustard tan color shade.

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#12 Greg Robinson

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 09:09 AM

Here's my two-tone example:


leicanthrope,

Here's the exact same pouch when it was mint....mustard tan and green. I have a second one of these faded to look similar to yours. It's very "salty" looking and I got it mounted on the stock of my M1 Carbine. :) Later BOYT production of these USMC pouches were solid green.

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#13 craig_pickrall

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 09:59 AM

During the course of that contract is when the design was changed.

MAG_POCKET_COMPARISON_9.jpg
MAG_POCKET_COMPARISON_10.jpg

#14 Gregory

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 11:22 AM

For our colorful soldier we create :D I may add one more two-tone canteen, a product of the Bradley-Goodrich Co. of 1942.

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#15 REG

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 11:38 AM

For our colorful soldier we create :D I may add one more two-tone canteen, a product of the Bradley-Goodrich Co. of 1942.


Would you allow a 1945 musette?

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#16 Salvage Sailor

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 05:36 PM

Not a great example, but here's an Avery 1943 pack I have with different color straps.

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#17 'Flage Guy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:36 PM

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has a weak place for web gear of mixed-up shades. I have a good pile of this stuff, much of which will give even the most hardened, jack-booted Khaki Nazi (or their security force, the Khakishirts) the same reaction as Ashe, the robot in the 1st "Alien", after being shoved against the wall by Sigourney Weaver :naughty:

Here is an M1923 Cartridge Belt made by D.M. Shoe Co. in 1943, O.D. #7 with an O.D. #3 back panel on both sides. The wire cutter pouch is tan on the outside, but O.D. #7 on the underside; the M1936 Suspenders are by Varied, also dated '43. In fact, the only things not made in '43 on this rig are the canteen cover, which is a "Gates Co. '44", and the cutter pouch- "Lee Co. '44".

Trans._belt____43_D.M._Shoe.jpg

Edited by 'Flage Guy, 22 June 2009 - 03:41 PM.


#18 'Flage Guy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:43 PM

Here's an even wilder "transitional" ammo belt: "Midwest Duck & Canvas 1943; canteen cover marked "J.Q.M.D. 1942"; "Varied 1943" suspenders. The clip retainer strips in the belt's pockets are light O.D. as well. Also some mixed-up Carbine clip pouches and cutter carriers.

Trans._belt____43_Midw._Cnvs..jpg

Edited by 'Flage Guy, 22 June 2009 - 03:49 PM.


#19 'Flage Guy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:54 PM

Here's a "trans" from Harian Stitching made in 1945. The M1936 suspenders (modified) are marked "Coglizer 1945"; the shoulder straps are made from dismantled gas mask bag straps- the seam layout markings and many of the old threads are still present where they were cut to make the web straps straight. The canteen covers are more Jeffersonville products.

Trans._belt____45.jpg

Edited by 'Flage Guy, 22 June 2009 - 04:08 PM.


#20 'Flage Guy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 04:00 PM

This is the strangest "trans" I've seen yet: a '43 dated Avery rucksack with an O.D. #7 outer body, tan bottom panel and O.D. #3 inner panel. All the webbing and edge binding are light O.D. and tan too, but they most always are on these...

Trans._rucksack.jpg

I've got some other '43-'44 dated belts and other web which have little or no light O.D./tan components on them- have to get some shots and develop them to continue the fight of the O.D. #7 Underground...Speaking Truth to Khaki Fascism... B)

Edited by 'Flage Guy, 22 June 2009 - 04:05 PM.


#21 craig_pickrall

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 04:44 PM

Jim, thanks for posting the mismatched gear here. It is a great selection. It should give the Khaki Nazis nightmares when ever they dare to look at this thread.

#22 'Flage Guy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 05:09 PM

Jim, thanks for posting the mismatched gear here. It is a great selection. It should give the Khaki Nazis nightmares when ever they dare to look at this thread.


Much obliged, Craig :thumbsup: I remember reading this thread some time ago, and really getting a kick out of it...thanks for the reminder! Like I said, I have a bunch more of this stuff- just gotta get the pics prepared and up on the computer. Until then, keep making a stand against the Khakishirts :lol:

Trans._rack__lower.jpg

#23 General Apathy

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 10:04 AM

Hi fellow members who joined in on the post, I just spotted that this thread I started back in Jan 2007 had come back to the top again. ;)

So I just wanted to say thanks for showing all your two or even three tone kit, nice to see it all. :thumbsup:

Cheers ( Lewis )


#24 'Flage Guy

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 05:38 PM

Just got some more pics to "transition" onto this thread...

M1935 Bedroll:

Trans._Bedroll.jpg

#25 'Flage Guy

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 05:39 PM

Trans._Bedroll_stamp.jpg


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