Jump to content


Photo

Coast Guard CPO Cap Devices


  • Please log in to reply
115 replies to this topic

#101 MastersMate

MastersMate
  • Members
    • Member ID: 162,267
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Shoreline, Washington

Posted 05 August 2016 - 07:25 AM

Guess the particular reason for the shield containing the 15 vertical stripes will remain among one of those items lost to history..

 

The timeline though, in connection with the usage on the shield for the RCS and CG cap insignia can be pretty accurately placed around 1908/09..  I finally found the 8 x 12 glossy photo of the 1908 Master at Arms rating badge that is in the files at the Coast Guard Museum Northwest, at pier 36 in Seattle.  I dug out the magnifying glass and gave a detailed look at the silver bullion shield that was the MAA specialty mark.. It is very detailed embroidery and you can clearly make out 15 vertical stripes (pales) on the shield. The 13 stars can also be distinguished.

 

The differences on the CPO anchors over the time line. Probably just a manufacturers choice.. Interesting though, the officer and warrant officer shield contain 13 pales, like the national shield.

 

For me, I think this little oddity is set aside until something official ever gets discovered...  Been an interesting chase..



#102 MastersMate

MastersMate
  • Members
    • Member ID: 162,267
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Shoreline, Washington

Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:13 AM

Was looking over on E-Bay and this particular Coast Guard CPO cap insignia caught my eye.  

 

When the Revenue Cutter Service and Lifesaving Service were combined in 1915 to create the Coast Guard, they basically continued on as two branches under one heading. About 1939, when the Lighthouse Service was folded in to the CG, the commandant took a big step and eliminated the branches and made all Coast Guard personnel available for assignment into any assignment. He saw that he had to unify the service in view of the upcoming war.

 

This is the cap device of the CPO(L) either BM or MoMM, the only two ratings in the lifesaving branch..  The 1930 CG uniform regs describe this style anchor for the station CPO. In June 1938 a change to uniform regs, eliminated the lifering and anchor and prescribed the foul anchor and shield for all CPOs..

 

The 1938 date is interesting because the anchor is of the USN style and fouling. May be the last production run of the CPO(L) insignia..

Attached Images

  • E bay cpo(L).jpg


#103 Tim B

Tim B
  • Members
    • Member ID: 50,776
  • 1,536 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:12 PM

I actually consider that example to be WW2 era, as it's fouled with chain.  Remember, the other naval services followed the Navy's uniforms/insignia designs.

 

Here are four different "main" variations of the Lifesaving CPO emblems that I've found while searching and I've tried to place them in what I believe is earliest (left) to later (right) period of use.  I would place the example you show where the red arrow is placed.

 

Note, like all the other insignia, the early badges used twisted wire to resemble rope/line and the twist got tighter as time went on.  The example on the far left also has the open style catch, where the other examples use a ball style locking catch.  The third (from left) is circa late 1920's to 1930's IMO, and is marked Meyer Metal.  Note the last example on the right and the change in design to the fouling along the bottom of the anchor.  I have seen this on the regular CG CPO badges as well and have two, one marked V.H. Blackinton and the other dual hallmarked H-H/Imperial.  IMO, this is the later design but it may be circa the anchor you show too.  The reason I think it's later is the pattern of fouling is the same as it is today.

 

My thoughts anyway.

Attached Images

  • 1.JPG


#104 MastersMate

MastersMate
  • Members
    • Member ID: 162,267
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Shoreline, Washington

Posted 26 August 2016 - 07:34 PM

Here is a fairly recent Coast Guard CPO cap insignia.  I forgot I had this stuffed in a bureau drawer and recently dug it out. I picked it up at the CG Exchange in Ketchikan, Alaska in the uniform section. I recall there was also an E-9 insignia on the rack. Should have picked that up also.

 

Anyway, something different...

Attached Images

  • CPO Embroidered.jpg


#105 Tim B

Tim B
  • Members
    • Member ID: 50,776
  • 1,536 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 August 2016 - 08:50 PM

Nice to see bullion still being used.  Here's one that sold back in April; I would say WW2 based on construction.

Attached Images

  • 1.JPG


#106 Tim B

Tim B
  • Members
    • Member ID: 50,776
  • 1,536 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 August 2016 - 08:27 AM

Here's something I'm working on; finding the subdued versions of the anchor patterns I already have.

Attached Images

  • 1.JPG


#107 Tim B

Tim B
  • Members
    • Member ID: 50,776
  • 1,536 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 September 2016 - 07:36 PM

Thread is getting slow so thought I would add a few new pickups in hopes of generating some discussion.

 

Here's an interesting early subdued example marked with the Meyer shield and Meyer Metal hallmark.

 

Normally, I would think of subdued devices manufactured during wartime only and considering the Coast Guard didn't establish the CPO rating until 1920, I wonder what date is appropriate on this one.  Discussing this with Dana privately, he thinks it might be an anchor for the No.1 Surfman (First Class Petty Officer), possibly of WW1 vintage.  We still need to find an early 1920-1922 set of the uniform regs to see for sure but it's a nice piece with the rope fouling and open style catch.

Attached Images

  • 1.JPG


#108 Tim B

Tim B
  • Members
    • Member ID: 50,776
  • 1,536 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 September 2016 - 07:46 PM

Here's a really nice example that I place circa 1920's to 1930's vintage.   You don't see this pattern very often and I've seen these with the early style screw post and top/bottom stabilizing pins, similar to the one example Dana posted earlier and I think this pin back probably follows that one.

 

Really a sharp look with that separately applied "wound" rope fouling.  I've also noted two different types of rope used on these as well.

 

 

Attached Images

  • 2.JPG


#109 Tim B

Tim B
  • Members
    • Member ID: 50,776
  • 1,536 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 September 2016 - 07:49 PM

Though these are unmarked, I believe they might actually be made by Gemsco.  I say that, as the wound rope fouling is the same pattern as that seen on the Marine Corp EGA's of the same era, often referred to as the "Beast".  Some feel that pattern is manufactured by Hilborn-Hamburger but I have seen a few on the Gemsco marked cards, so...?

Attached Images

  • 2a.JPG


#110 Tim B

Tim B
  • Members
    • Member ID: 50,776
  • 1,536 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 September 2016 - 08:06 PM

Here's a interesting find and one I've been looking for sometime now.  It's an earlier style anchor dual marked H-H & Imperial.  I showed a later version back in post #37 and dated that example circa 1942/1943 based on the hallmarks, but I no longer think that is correct. 

 

Here's a comparison of the two and IMO, the pattern on the left is earlier, perhaps early to mid war, where the pattern on the right is late war or immediately post war, as the design is "similar" to the pattern in use through the 1950's to present day.  Another indicator that the dual hallmark was not limited to just '42/'43.

 

For some reason, the example on the left appears to have had the gilt finish scratched off and down to the copperish-bronze base metal, but it's striking in hand.

Attached Images

  • 3.JPG
  • 3b.JPG


#111 Tim B

Tim B
  • Members
    • Member ID: 50,776
  • 1,536 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 September 2016 - 08:13 PM

We were discussing those Navy converted anchors back on page's 3 & 4 and Dana posted an example in post #77 showing where the letter "S" remained under the Coast Guard shield. 

 

Here's another example, with screw post attachment and marked Vanguard N.Y.

Attached Images

  • 4.JPG


#112 MastersMate

MastersMate
  • Members
    • Member ID: 162,267
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Shoreline, Washington

Posted 30 September 2016 - 08:16 PM

I've got a couple of feelers out to see if anyone has any old photos of the Lifesaving Branch of the Coast Guard from the 1920s.

 

The subdued anchor went with the khaki / OD  lifeboat station uniform. We know it was in the inventory from 1916 to 1921 or 1922.

 

1922 / 1923 held a change to CG uniform regulations. If the 1915 surfman uniform continued up until 1930 when the style was changed, that will point to the subdued anchor dates.

 

Have never seen an anchor with the very intricate cable fouling. Really unique..

 

The 1930 CG uniform regs, original pages, describe the lifesaving station CPO cap insignia as the anchor with the lifering and crossed oars in place of the shield.  That missing 1922 / 23 gap will be real definitive in nailing down the transition date..



#113 MastersMate

MastersMate
  • Members
    • Member ID: 162,267
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Shoreline, Washington

Posted 01 October 2016 - 03:59 PM

Just a random thought on the importance of old photos and more importantly, cross checking them against uniform regulations of the supposed time frame of the photo.

 

An example is this photo of a cutter crew on a very knowledgable web site and dated to 1918. On first look you might take that on face value. If you do a little more digging you'd find that...

1. The Warrant Officers in the photo are wearing the insignia that was authorized in the 1900 Uniform Regs. That there are three Boatswains on the cutter seems odd. The 1900 Uniform regs note that the Boatswain, Gunner and Carpenter all wore the same insignia.

 

2. The specialty marks on the right sleeves were for coxswain, but were changed in 1900 uniform regs.

 

3. The cap band has 4 letters before the ships name. Those with the technology could blow the photo up and note that the letters are probably USRC.

 

Most likely this is a crew photo from the very late 1988 or 1899 time frame. It would also be extremely significant because the Revenue Cutter Service created the class of warrant officer in the summer of 1898. These most likely would be some of the first modern day warrant officers of that service. Although they used the term warrant officer, their official paperwork identified them as chief petty officers.

 

Now then none of that jibes with the present day legends about Coast Guard chiefs and warrants, but, you don't rock the boat when legends become facts.

 

Check the photo with the paperwork..

 

 

Attached Images

  • Old RC.jpg


#114 Tim B

Tim B
  • Members
    • Member ID: 50,776
  • 1,536 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 December 2016 - 07:42 PM

I normally don't post this level of informational photos here as I don't want my images showing up elsewhere under other's authorship, but hopefully those reading this thread will appreciate the information.

 

As I continue to see many anchors being advertised and sold as WW2, I thought I would show a quick and easy way to distinguish between actual wartime and post-war production Coast Guard variations.  This applies only to the approved design going forward (style of anchor discussed previously in posts #47 - #50) and not the transitional pieces (ex. posted 111) or the earlier WW2 anchor patterns.

 

Happy New Year!

 

 

 

Attached Images

  • Copyright Picture2 - USMF.JPG


#115 MastersMate

MastersMate
  • Members
    • Member ID: 162,267
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Shoreline, Washington

Posted 04 June 2018 - 05:59 PM

I managed to put the pinch on another 1915 to mid 1920s style of the USCG CPO cap insignia.  From the front it looks just like the early styles illustrated in this thread.  1 5/8" tall +/- a skoosh,  twisted wire cable,..  The reverse side has a top and bottom small indexing pins. The shield has posts passed thru the shank and bent to hold the shield on.  It has a center screw post and knurled nut to fasten to the cap.  The CG uniform regs of 1915 and 1922 specify that the cap device is fastened with a center screw post through the grommet in the front of the cap just above the mohair band.  By 1924sh the CG CPO and surfmen had shifted to the 1922 USN style combination cap and the fastening for the CPO device would have shifted to the pin and catch fastener as in the 1930 CG uniform regs.

 

Two of them, lucky catch..



#116 MastersMate

MastersMate
  • Members
    • Member ID: 162,267
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Shoreline, Washington

Posted 04 June 2018 - 06:07 PM

Back in post  #101, I got to wondering as to just WHY the petty officer shield has/had 15 stripes vs 13 stripes in the officers shield.

 

One very remote possibility pops into view to explain the difference.  In 1798 the Revenue Marine, due to the Quasi War with France, was directed to co-operate with the Navy in defense of the coast.  The Revenue Marine authorized an increase in manning the cutters and appointed, for the first time, petty officers to manage the crew. At the time, there were 15 states in the union . Possibility someone back in 1908 took that into account.

 

Just slapping that against the bulkhead..




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users