Hello

 

Got this nice flag officer tunic for a rear admiral

 

Notice the Navy Cross and the Grand officer of the Légion d'Honneur

 

Unamed 

 

And with former ennemy 

 

Thanks for looking

Louis.

The first ribbon bar is for the Navy Distinguished Service Medal. The Navy Cross has a white center stripe.

1 hour ago, atb said:

The first ribbon bar is for the Navy Distinguished Service Medal. The Navy Cross has a white center stripe.

Hello

 

Apologies for the miss identification  !

Still a hight hand award for our Amiral 👍

 

Louis 

 

A very cool and rare piece.  I've never seen a flag rank khaki blouse with the black sleeve rank trim.  Great find!!

 

Steve

8 hours ago, themick said:

A very cool and rare piece.  I've never seen a flag rank khaki blouse with the black sleeve rank trim.  Great find!!

 

Steve

Thanks !

 

This one is part of 1922 - 1941 US NAVY regulations

 

Quote

On 22 June 1924, the Chief of the Bureau of Aeronautics directed a letter to the Secretary of the Navy strongly recommending the authorization of a kahki uniform for summer wear and a heavier one for cold weather. He suggested that such a uniform could be used to advantage by all officers whose duties involved working with machinery. This idea became a reality just prior to World War II! A working dress was authorized on 8 April 1925 for “Naval Aviators, Observers and Other Officers detailed to duty involving flying.” The newly authorized coat was not like that of the recent war but a modification of the new service blue sack coat. The self-belted, single-breasted khaki coat was fastened with three bronzed buttons, had a rolling collar, notched lapels, a pocket on either breast and two lower bellows pockets

 

See more there

https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/heritage/uniforms-and-personal-equipment/uniforms-1922-1931.html

 

After the 1941 regulation, all flag ranks where on shoulders 

 

Thanks

Louis.

This raises some real questions for me. The pre-1941 khakis were all cotton twill, this looks like wool or a blend. As a "wash" item, the coat used removable wings, ribbons and buttons so they didn't have to be re-sewn. Are the black stars on a wool backing?

 

The pre-WW2 khaki coat had bellows-style lower pockets; they were not changed to the flat patch style until 1947-48, around the same time that wool khakis—which became an option during the war—became "service dress" rather than "working."

 

The shoulder loops are unusual, too. They were usually long enough to be covered by the collar, and pointed, not blunt on the end.

Hello Justin

 

Some more pictures 

 

Pocket tissu, for me it's not wool 

 

 

Star, on a cotton backing

 

Wool based wing 

Behind of it 

 

Interior of the coat

 

 

And Shoulder board

 

Louis.

The buttons appear to have right facing eagles dating them to after 14 May 1941.

 

Is the coat named?

13 minutes ago, FlyNavy02 said:

The buttons appear to have right facing eagles dating them to after 14 May 1941.

 

Is the coat named?

I forgot a picture of the buttons 

 

Coat unamed, I have only a tailor label

 

But , as I may be wrong with the date, I don't think for a "all put together" 

The uniform is of superb quality and made by a tailor who was known for making high end uniforms for higher ranking officers. 

As far as not being of the more low grade materials of a typical khaki uniform, if anyone would deviate from this (and be permitted to do so), it would be an admiral. 

Those post 1941 buttons initially struck me as being impossible.  But, I note this style khaki uniform with sleeve rank was replaced in 1941 with a khaki uniform with shoulder board rank.

1941 was the same year the eagle head direction on the buttons changed.

Could this uniform been made in a very small window in 1941 where a (pre ordered)  old style uniform was  matched up with new style buttons?

I think somehow, this uniform is correct and legit. 

I'd have to think given the combination that this uniform would be fairly simple to ID?

16 minutes ago, History Man said:

I'd have to think given the combination that this uniform would be fairly simple to ID?

Agree - some characteristics really limit the field of possibilities:

1.  Spanish American War service (noted the ribbons are out of order)

2.  Naval Aviator

3.  Still serving 40 some years later in 1941

4.  DSM

5.  Looks like a French Legion of Honor ribbon? 

 

 

I look at things as "wrong" until I can explain them and gain comfort with it. 

 

In this case, to me this looks like a 1940s or 50s (or later?) Navy officer's khaki uniform jacket that someone sewed cuff rank on. I have yet to convince myself otherwise. Can anyone point out where this jacket (sans insignia) is different than any other kahki uniform jacket? Happy to be wrong. 

 

Tagging @KASTAUFFER as he knows these pretty well. 

Hello

 

More pictures of how the uniform is designed

 

Arm rank

 

Interior 

 

Pocket tab

I did notice there was a name but was rip off

 

 

Thanks for helping me on this

 

About the Legion d'Honneur it's the Grand officier rank  (a really strong one considering of the last LH Rank is Grand Croix)

You will notice the gold part of the ruban, indicating the rank 

 

Louis.

Here's one thread discussing them:
 

 

And another:
 

 

Looking at the uniform and comparing it to the few photos of real ones, I'm not seeing anything that couldn't have been put together by someone. The cuff rank is easy enough to buy and sew on, the ribbons are easy to create and sew on, and the wings are available...and again, easy enough to sew on. 

 

Thus far, I'm not seeing anything that's "this HAS to be a 1930's khaki" uniform. Again, happy to be wrong if something is obvious that I'm missing. 

Sorry, this just does not look like a pre-WW2 working khaki coat.

The buttons were changed from bronze to gold in April '41, before the new Uniform Regulations were published in June with the eagle direction change, so there would be no reason to put new-style bronze buttons on a khaki coat. 

 

The pre-WW2 navy khakis were very much thought of as a hands-on working uniform, meant to go through the ship's laundry. The lightweight tropical wools (Palm Beach, TW etc.) were expensive and would be very unlikely for a working uniform at that time. 

 

I have never seen a period photo of pre-WW2 or WW2 working khakis with embroidered wings. It was non-regulation, and it was impractical as well.

 

Louis, are there any traces of former shoulder board attachment loops under the shoulder straps?
 

 

41 minutes ago, KurtA said:

Agree - some characteristics really limit the field of possibilities:

Take your pick:

Ernest King
Charles Blakely

That's all I can come up with, 1941-1942 flag NAs with DSM. And King would have a gold star for a second DSM.

Hello Justin

 

Here is the pictures 

 

Not any trace of a attachment 

 

 

Louis.

24 minutes ago, Dave said:

I look at things as "wrong" until I can explain them and gain comfort with it. 

 

In this case, to me this looks like a 1940s or 50s (or later?) Navy officer's khaki uniform jacket that someone sewed cuff rank on. I have yet to convince myself otherwise. Can anyone point out where this jacket (sans insignia) is different than any other kahki uniform jacket? Happy to be wrong. 

 

Tagging @KASTAUFFER as he knows these pretty well. 

Hmmmm.  Good point, Dave.
I think the key is analyzing those shoulder straps. 
In the one photo you can see some stitches/threads at the base of the strap.  I looked at a number of other various uniforms I have.  Stitching / threads were not visible.    So, that’s not good.  Possibly added later.  
The eyelets (opening for the button) on the straps should  be compared to those on the pockets and down the front. I would think the stitching  should all be identical. 
The one component not easily available would be the line officer stars. Can’t think of any other uniform that would have these.  Would have to be manufactured.  
 

I'm seeing some very rough hand stitching on the shoulder straps. Also, the backing of the shoulder straps doesn't match the lining of the jacket...something you wouldn't see on a jacket from a high-end tailor. 

 

Keep in mind these were sold without shoulder strap loops when Chief Petty Officers were authorized to wear the uniform, so missing the loops isn't a tell-tale sign. 

You are right, that's not how a Hight end tailor would present the uniform.

 

Here is a picture of tunic button holes VS tunic button stars

 

 

Well that one of a kind to have faked this one 

 

I'm mainly on French Generals and I will keept on it ! :) 

(Or just US army generals)

 

Tunic was brought  from James Military Antiques (JMA)

 

Louis.

It all appears to me to be too crude in workmanship, especially for a RAdm.  Looks to me like someone doctored a late 1940's CPO blouse.

2 minutes ago, R Leonard said:

It all appears to me to be too crude in workmanship, especially for a RAdm.  Looks to me like someone doctored a late 1940's CPO blouse.

When looking at the internet :

https://wow.uscgaux.info/content.php?unit=A-DEPT&category=uniform-1950-1

 

With different shoulders and pockets flaps and you got it

 

 

(I should have know this forum before the fatal act 🤕, but we cannot fight from all fronts !  )

 

 

At least , my other general is good 😁

https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/394282-grouping-of-m-g-thomas-dewees-finley-commanding-officer-89th-id-ww2/

 

Louis.

The shoulder strap eyelets  being so different seal the deal for me -  uniform is a rather well done fake.