This is from the questions part of the listing....

 

"Q: Hi there. I'm interested in this item but how come the card says clutch back when this is a screwback disc?

A: This disc inadvertently got put on the wrong card, I do have the correct card for this."

 

 

HAHAHA..FAIL!!

This is from the questions part of the listing....

 

"Q: Hi there. I'm interested in this item but how come the card says clutch back when this is a screwback disc?

A: This disc inadvertently got put on the wrong card, I do have the correct card for this."

HAHAHA..FAIL!!

 

A manufacturer's card for a single clutch-back disc will have two small holes punched in it. To add a screw-back to it instead would necessitate punching a new hole. Impossible to mistake one for the other!!

 

Sabrejet :think:

Airborne is a qualification, not an "arm." Many soldiers in many MOS's have completed Army airborne training since the training was started. A division was and is made up of units from many of the branches. Airborne Engineers wore the Corps of Engineers castle, airborne Artillerymen wore the crossed cannon of the Artillery and etc. What branch insignia a soldier has worn has changed through the years. Soldier's used to wear the branch disk of the unit they were in. Later, they wore the branch associated with their MOS. From 1970, I have worn Engineer, Artillery/Air Defense Artillery, Military Police, Signal Corps and Unassigned to Branch. My "brass" changed everytime I went to a new unit until 1976 or 1977 when the Army decided we should wear what represented our MOS and I wore the crossed flags and torch of the Signal Corps until retirement.

 

I know that Airborne is a qualification, by "arm" I meant "a part of"... my fault for not speaking clearly. I was just remarking that I had never heard nor seen any other branch insignia worn by the Airborne Infantry except the crossed rifles (I know that other MOS's wear their branch insignia... i.e. artillery, engineer, etc). Having seen the period picture, I can consider retracting that part of my statement, but is that the only picture available, or is it a one off? I's never seen that insignia before this thread, but would be curious to know if there were other photos showing this insignia...

 

Wayne

This is the point that cwnorma and I have been trying to make about WW1 painted helmets. He's been collecting since 1976, and I've been at it since 1958. For years, neither one of us saw painted WW1 helmets. Within the last 15-20 years, there now seems to be a ton of them. I have about 30, all acquired from the vet, or the family of the vet. This is in 52 years of collecting, which comes out to .58 painted helmets a year for me. I'd be willing to bet my eye teeth that almost all of mine were painted during the occupation or on the way home. As a former combat infantryman, I had better things to do with my free time than paint a helmet, especially in Vietnam. With the advent of the internet, painted helmets from both wars seem to be a lot more common now. I just wish I could explain why I'd go years without seeing one from WW1 (or 2 for that matter) and now they are all over the place. Anyone else who has collected for a long time care to weigh in on this? I'm not saying they are all bad, I'm just wondering how they stayed hidden for years, then BOOM there they are.

 

John

 

 

He is up front about his work.I never saw him sell anything as original or try to mis-lead someone personally.He recently did 25 WW1 helmets all with variations of the 2nd Division emblem.Sent to him by a dealer palin to be painted.

 

Thing is when they hit the secondary market.I have seen some of his stuff bring big money on ebay here and across the pond.He had a First Special Service Force helmet a couple years ago at the show.Two months later it was on epay and went for over $750 from a seller from DesMoines.

 

Two od his buiggest creations are the medics helmets and the Ranger marked helmets.He also can/will weld on rank.\

 

RD

We had one done in 2 pcs brass that came from a 11th AB trooper in the late 40-50s who was stationed in Japan. We also had a silver domed 1950s one. I had always figured both were very post war and unofficial PX type items. But they weren't a bad marriage like this guys stuff!

This is the point that cwnorma and I have been trying to make about WW1 painted helmets. He's been collecting since 1976, and I've been at it since 1958. For years, neither one of us saw painted WW1 helmets. Within the last 15-20 years, there now seems to be a ton of them. I have about 30, all acquired from the vet, or the family of the vet. This is in 52 years of collecting, which comes out to .58 painted helmets a year for me. I'd be willing to bet my eye teeth that almost all of mine were painted during the occupation or on the way home. As a former combat infantryman, I had better things to do with my free time than paint a helmet, especially in Vietnam. With the advent of the internet, painted helmets from both wars seem to be a lot more common now. I just wish I could explain why I'd go years without seeing one from WW1 (or 2 for that matter) and now they are all over the place. Anyone else who has collected for a long time care to weigh in on this? I'm not saying they are all bad, I'm just wondering how they stayed hidden for years, then BOOM there they are.

 

John

 

 

John,

I have seen infinitely more legitimate WWI painted helmets than I have ever seen WWII painted helmets, but by watching this forum and others, it is obvious that they are exploding out of the woodwork with all sorts of paint on them. I've mentioned this a number of times to hardcore helmet collectors who usually chuckle, tell me that they know what they are doing and how to spot a fake, and that all of their helmets are original. I make the counterpoint to them that there are people who fake paintings by Da Vinci, Michealangelo, Van Gogh, Renoir, Picasso, etc. and they have been fooling art experts for centuries. What makes anyone think that they can tell a WWI painted helmet that was done in the 70's (nearly forty years ago) from one painted in 1918 or 1945? Actually, the guy whose work prompted this thread has been painting helmets since the 1950's! He even still has lead based paint, and artistic talent. His work has passed "expert" scrutiny many, many times.

My two cents,

Allan

John

 

I too have collected a fairly long time.Have seen my share of both painted and unpainted WW1 lids.My dad had a big intrest in WW1 and most of the helmets we obtained were from our area of 250 miles or less and most out of the wood work.I got a decent 35th helmet just back in February as a bring in to our local gunshow.Maybe population density has something to do with the overall numbers.Here in the upper midwest the population isnt as heavy per mile as in some places.Also the area has lots of German and Norweigian ancestry and these people never thew anything away.It was always amazing to go to auctions back in the late 1970s and 1980s.I can think of maybe 4 helmets that we didnt get from a vet or auction of the vet or family member.

 

I do agree there are a lot current painted helmets on the market and I know some were done 30 plus years ago.It seems the unpainted helmets will be the hard ones to find.

 

RD

These discs are copied from known originals.There is a picture of them being worn.Not official but Im sure made by a jeweler.I think the picture had been published in ASMIC and a couple other places

 

 

I just bought a copy of "The Collar Disc Story" and remember there is an example pictured in there.

 

Mike

From 1970, I have worn Engineer, Artillery/Air Defense Artillery, Military Police, Signal Corps and Unassigned to Branch. My "brass" changed everytime I went to a new unit until 1976 or 1977 when the Army decided we should wear what represented our MOS and I wore the crossed flags and torch of the Signal Corps until retirement.

 

Was that ASA, perchance?

Alan/Ron,

 

I don't know whether it was this area or the fact that I never looked (grandpop was really active in the 40/8 and the Legion, good for me! ) but, even groups that I got directly from the vet didn't have painted lids with them. I agree that they were done in France (period photos support this), in the embarkation points waiting to go home, on the ship going home, or as a piece of trench art at home. Never thought to ask any of the AEF vets that I knew if they painted helmets.

 

There were several divisions that did paint helmets (the 26th, 28th, and 35th come to mind specifically) but, if you look at them, the 28th and 35th are actually a pretty simple design. Then again, the 91st had a pretty standard pine tree design with the white 91 on it that at least on my examples appear to be done with a stencil of some type.

 

So, I guess the answer is "Who knows for sure?" The whole question is kind of a chicken and egg sort of thing. Chris who grew up in Fla doesn't remember seeing them, and I who grew up in Delaware don't remember seeing them. Then again, I used to hear "Hey kid, what do you want that surplus junk for?" LOL

 

John

 

As for helmet collectors that claim they know what they are doing, in the world, as long as there are people who buy things to collect, there will be people to produce quality fakes to seperate folks from money be it fine art, or "surplus junk"

 

John

 

 

John

 

I too have collected a fairly long time.Have seen my share of both painted and unpainted WW1 lids.My dad had a big intrest in WW1 and most of the helmets we obtained were from our area of 250 miles or less and most out of the wood work.I got a decent 35th helmet just back in February as a bring in to our local gunshow.Maybe population density has something to do with the overall numbers.Here in the upper midwest the population isnt as heavy per mile as in some places.Also the area has lots of German and Norweigian ancestry and these people never thew anything away.It was always amazing to go to auctions back in the late 1970s and 1980s.I can think of maybe 4 helmets that we didnt get from a vet or auction of the vet or family member.

 

I do agree there are a lot current painted helmets on the market and I know some were done 30 plus years ago.It seems the unpainted helmets will be the hard ones to find.

 

RD