A question about the French WWII Croix de Guerre fourragère: Is this fourragère an equivalent of ribbon bar over left pocket? I have the impression that many times the US WWII servicemen wore CdG fourragère without classic ribbon bar over the pocket? Am I wrong?

58 minutes ago, Gregory said:

A question about the French WWII Croix de Guerre fourragère: Is this fourragère an equivalent of ribbon bar over left pocket? I have the impression that many times the US WWII servicemen wore CdG fourragère without classic ribbon bar over the pocket? Am I wrong?

The French fourragere to the Croix de Guerre signifies two unit awards of the Croix de Guerre. Ribbons are supposed to only be worn by individuals who received Croix de Guerre for individual acts of gallantry. Units that received additional awards of the Croix de Guerre after award of the fourragere received the fourragere to the Medalle Militaire. The Belgian fourragere was awarded to units who were cited twice in the "Orders of the Day of the Belgian Army." 

 

Soldiers should not wear a ribbon to denote a unit award, but it happened A LOT.

Allan

Okay, Allan thank you very much!

One more question: From what date this WWII CdG fourragère was authorized to wear it on the US servicemen's uniforms?

2 hours ago, Gregory said:

One more question: From what date this WWII CdG fourragère was authorized to wear it on the US servicemen's uniforms?

Typically, a representative of the French Government would make a formal presentation of the fourragere to the unit by affix the cords to the unit colors. They would authorize the award effective that date. The US military would reciprocate by authorizing wear of the foreign award on the same date. 

To give you some perspective, the French Government awarded the French fourragere to the 82nd Airborne in October of 1945, and the unit began wearing the cord immediately. The Belgians awarded their fourragere a little bit later, but the citations for the Belgian awards were not published in the Belgian "Orders of the Day" until 1950.

 

Allan

Thanks a lot Allan 

I'm looking for some feedback on these. Thoughts on WWII-made or post-war production? 

Hello All,

 

Here is a recently acquired example from my collection.  It came from the estate of C. Clement "Clem" Coats (May 31, 1922 - May 6, 2016).  I am very curious as to the "story" this uniform "tells," as I have not been able to find much on the trooper's service history.  I believe the family kept the ribbons and Jump Wings/CIB - what would be a likely guess as to ribbons and devices, since I can't find his records? Any color commentary would be great appreciated, as I wish to have it accompany the uniform on display.  Sorry for the poor photo, as this is all I have right now, as I am temporarily separated from my collection, but, could provide more soon, if needed.

 

Thank you,

 

Eric

 

6 hours ago, dc9 said:

Hello All,

 

Here is a recently acquired example from my collection.  It came from the estate of C. Clement "Clem" Coats (May 31, 1922 - May 6, 2016).  I am very curious as to the "story" this uniform "tells," as I have not been able to find much on the trooper's service history.  I believe the family kept the ribbons and Jump Wings/CIB - what would be a likely guess as to ribbons and devices, since I can't find his records? Any color commentary would be great appreciated, as I wish to have it accompany the uniform on display.  Sorry for the poor photo, as this is all I have right now, as I am temporarily separated from my collection, but, could provide more soon, if needed.

 

Thank you,

 

Eric

 

Your amazing uniform has been put together using 1950's chevrons. The Orange Lanyard is not vintage either.

 

Allan

2 hours ago, Allan H. said:

Your amazing uniform has been put together using 1950's chevrons. The Orange Lanyard is not vintage either.

 

Allan

Allan,

 

Here is his 2nd uniform.  Note the overseas stripes and laundry marks in the neckline different from the first.  I have the Fourragères separated.  Is this one also a "put together"?  When I get home I can post more pictures.  I am genuinely interested in what story it is trying to tell.

 

On 12/31/2021 at 2:35 PM, OSUbeliever said:

I'm looking for some feedback on these. Thoughts on WWII-made or post-war production? 

.....I have one of the predominately green ones. Spent a year with the 2/7 Cav, 1st Cav Div in 1981. It was authorized to wear.

1 hour ago, dc9 said:

Allan,

 

Here is his 2nd uniform.  Note the overseas stripes and laundry marks in the neckline different from the first.  I have the Fourragères separated.  Is this one also a "put together"?  When I get home I can post more pictures.  I am genuinely interested in what story it is trying to tell.

 

What I can tell from this photo is that your closet is pretty dark.

 

Allan

11 hours ago, Lancer-86 said:

Very interesting, we take it then this Corpsman was in the 6th Marines.

7 hours ago, patches said:

Very interesting, we take it then this Corpsman was in the 6th Marines.

Yessir

Picked this up today. Decent Vietnam 23rd Inf Div Americal uniform. Is the red shoulder cord for Artillery or Engineer? The Green/yellow Fourragère, is it for the Vietnamese Military Merit Unit award? I thought that was more yellow than green. Good size 44L. Nice cut edge patch.     

8 hours ago, easterneagle87 said:

Picked this up today. Decent Vietnam 23rd Inf Div Americal uniform. Is the red shoulder cord for Artillery or Engineer? The Green/yellow Fourragère, is it for the Vietnamese Military Merit Unit award? I thought that was more yellow than green. Good size 44L. Nice cut edge patch.     

 

Your uniform has a red branch cord for field artillery. As I recall, these were not authorized, but were worn when ok'd by local command. The yello and green fourragere is for the french Medalle Militaire. Most units awarded this fourragere were units of the 1st and second infantry divisions that received these unit awards in WWI and WWII. I am not aware of any units of the 23rd Division that were entitled to wear this honor.

 

Allan

On 1/10/2014 at 12:48 AM, patches said:

Yes Aubagne, that's what was in play here with the those units, a combining of the awards for WWI with the new awards for WWII, in the case of U.S. 1st Inf Div the Rope in the colors of MM, and in the case of the U.S. 3rd Inf Div the awarding of the Rope in the colors of the WWII CdG. The U.S. Marine Corps' 5th and 6th Marines as part of the U.S. Army's 2nd Division have one in the colors of the WWI CdG, they still wear it today, worn it ever since 1919, so to the two other Infantry Regiments that made up the U.S. 2nd Div in WWI, the 9th and 23rd Infantry Regiments. In WWII this Division consisted of the 9th, 23rd and 38th Infantry Regments, the 38th Inf Regt was actually a part of the WWI 3rd Div, it was transferred out in late 1939 over to the 2nd Div, it, the 38th Inf had it's award of the CdG with Palm from WWI, but did not receive another one in WWII, in fact none of the units of the 2nd Inf Div in WWII received a WWII CdG, so the French Rope they were then as today is the French Rope in the colors of WWI, though they were awarded the Beligian Rope, being cited two time in the Order of the Day of the Belgium Army for the Ardennes ( Battle of the Bulge )

 

Another loose thread is the 28th U.S. Infantry Regiment, it was a part of the 1st Division in WWI, but like the 38th Inf Regt in the 3rd Div, it too was transferred out in late 1939, it going to the 8th Division, it wore it's French Rope, the only unit in the 8th Division to do so throughout WWII. The 8th Infantry Division while having all it's units awarded at least one, or two in the case of the 28th Infantry, an award of the Distinguished Unit Citation, the DUC, now known as the Presidential Unit Citation, the PUC, it received no French or Belgian awards, though the entire Division did receive a Luxemburg CdG, one award, though I'm not sure why the 8th Inf Div was awarded that, possibly lending a hand in the clearing of German Troops from the Duchy after they arrived there from Brittany in Mid to late September 1944.

And to show what we're talking about in regards to the 28th Infantry's French Rope.

 

A 1943 Stateside shot of a 28th Infantry Tech 5 with the unit Rope, note the 8th Infantry Division patch there.

I have a question regarding the foreign awards for the 82nd Airborrne as shown in this photo.. 1946 NYC Parade.

I believe the cord on the left is the Netherlands Orange Lanyard and the one on the right is the Belgian fourragere? 
 

If  the Belgian award wasn’t officially awarded until 1950, how can these airborne troopers already have them in 1946…. And are they cut down to show just a single rope without loops or brass tip?

 

Also, I don’t see any of them wearing the French fourrage

 

On 2/1/2022 at 3:38 AM, Lancer-86 said:

Yessir

Not a marine guy, but isn’t the patch 2nd Mar Div? Would that be 2/6th?

3 hours ago, digi-shots said:

I have a question regarding the foreign awards for the 82nd Airborrne as shown in this photo.. 1946 NYC Parade.

I believe the cord on the left is the Netherlands Orange Lanyard and the one on the right is the Belgian fourragere? 
 

If  the Belgian award wasn’t officially awarded until 1950, how can these airborne troopers already have them in 1946…. And are they cut down to show just a single rope without loops or brass tip?

 

Also, I don’t see any of them wearing the French fourrage

 

Here's one in the flesh.

https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/299513-brothers-grouping-504th-pir-and-243rd-fab

I too wondered about the type, why just a single rope with these Belgian ones. I seem to recall from other talks the wear of these, and the WWII French Rope, in that word had already come down of the award in the summer of 45, maybe even a little earlier, and troops just became to wear them, in the case of the French Ropes, they start to acquire the WWI French Rope and wear them, simply because the WWII ones were not ready yet.

 

10 hours ago, digi-shots said:

I have a question regarding the foreign awards for the 82nd Airborrne as shown in this photo.. 1946 NYC Parade.

I believe the cord on the left is the Netherlands Orange Lanyard and the one on the right is the Belgian fourragere? 
 

If  the Belgian award wasn’t officially awarded until 1950, how can these airborne troopers already have them in 1946…. And are they cut down to show just a single rope without loops or brass tip?

 

Also, I don’t see any of them wearing the French fourrage

 

I can answer your question quite simply. The photo is of troopers of the 504th AIR as evidenced by the blue shield with sword stencil on their helmets. The 504th did not participate in the D-Day operation, so were not awarded a unit award of the French Croix de Guerre, thus no fourragere for the award.

 

Allan

Patches, thanks for your follow up and link.. I had not read that one yet.

 

Allan, I didn’t realize the 504th were not awarded the French CdG fourragere.  I thought the entire 82nd received the award.  I learn something every day.

 

(recently read that the Holland glider pilots were awarded the Orange Lanyard after the war, but not the tow pilots.. the reason being the glider pilot actually landed the glider and had “feet on the ground” whereas the tow pilots did not).
 

I’ve seen some French fourragere that have what looks like a broken red stripe on the finial rope end and others with a continuous red stripe.. WWI vs WWII?  
 

Patches,  I don’t know.. maybe some of the first ones awarded were actually from WWI inventory or sometime after the war the veterans obtained the other variation.  Or, as you said, as soon as the new ones were available they were awarded.  

 

In the photo, many of the troopers show a single Belgian braid.. and also have they rifle slings under their shoulder tabs.  I thought that maybe the original troopers who marched in the NYC parade cut off the finials for a more uniform look.  However in looking closer, the two on the front far right have the braid loop on the outside of their right arm.

Hi all,

Is it 1st Field Signal Battalion which was awarded FOURRAGÈRE AU TITRE DE LA GUERRE 1914-1918 in 08/08/1921?