Found this today at a local second-hand store: I didn't know what it was but for $15 I could not pass up a bayonet. After looking it up it appears to be a Model 1873 Springfield "trapdoor" bayonet. It has no "US" marking but I found a couple of sources that refer to unmarked Model 1873's. It does have what seems to be an M or W in a circle and a serial number. Any ideas on the markings?

 

Any ideas about "M" or "W" in a circle on this?

Socket bayonets are notoriously hard to identify due to the limited markings and similar appearance.

 

Would need the length of the socket, the length of the blade, and the diameter of the inside of the socket at the front to begin. Also, is the elbow from the socket to the blade round or oval?

 

Then I will see if I can help. But I feel confident it is not a US Model 1873 bayonet.

But I feel confident it is not a US Model 1873 bayonet.

 

What are some of the other types using this same style?

What are some of the other types using this same style?

Pretty much every bayonet prior to 1900 (and some after). The number font looks European to me...

Pretty much every bayonet prior to 1900 (and some after). The number font looks European to me...

 

Thanks - I just found a website showing some examples: they make it tough to pin these down for sure.

It does look like this one may be French. But for reference purposes does anyone have photos of the US socket bayonets that do not have the "US" marking?

As mentioned before, without dimensions it is nearly impossible to tell some of these apart. I agree that the markings and numbers on the specimen in question almost guarantee it is of European origin.

 

Here are three US bayonets that will show some of the differences:

 

The top one is the so called "Drake" version for the Model 1841 rifles converted in circa 1861 to socket bayonet. It shows distinctly foreign influences and may have been manufactured overseas for the Drake contract. See Reilly American Socket Bayonets and Scabbards Figure B82. Note the almost 90 degree shank (elbow) shape and the flutes running completely out the back of the blade, which appears to be about the same as the one in question.

 

Middle is the standard Model 1873 most of which were converted from the Model 1855 by cold compressing the socket. Note the curved shank which is more common in US bayonets and the flutes stopping up in the blade rather than running out the back.

 

Bottom just for comparison is an unmarked specimen very similar to the Model 1873 but with a shorter socket. This is one of the many variations of Remington bayonets which in this case will fit the Remington Lee and some of the Rolling Block rifles, with the short socket is probably for one of the export models.

 

The bottom photo shows closeups of the same three for more detail.

 

 

The one I posted is very, very much like the Drake. I did some searching based on your info and compared mine with other photos and if it wasn't for size I'd want to call it a Drake or a Spanish M-1857 - but mine has a blade length of 21-5/8 inches and an overall length of 24-3/4: it's a big one. The inside socket diameter is about 17mm.

Well it turns out to be a Spanish Remington Rolling Block M.1871 socket bayonet. It's exact match (down to the marks) can be found at http://www.worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Ident...pain/spain.html - that page says

 

"Long socket bayonet for use on the 11.5 mm. M1871 rolling block rifle.

 

In his book, Socket Bayonets of the Great Powers, Shuey indicates that M1871 bayonets made in the USA had 2 5/8 in. sockets, where the Spanish-made bayonets had a 3 in. socket. This is corroborated by Juan L. Calvó in his 2003 article 24 Types of Socket Bayonets Found in Spain. "

 

Which brings up the question: were these used by the US? Knowing nothing about firearms, this statement also makes it sound like they were.

The Remington rifles, and some of the bayonets, were made in the US and sold to Spain who later made more bayonets themselves. The bayonets were made in the US but not used by the US.