Hi Guys,

 

I recently posed this question in "Uniform Buttons" section: when the Navy issued an updated khaki version of the N-1 jacket in 1943 (the first N-1 jacket was blue), did the early jackets have both brown and OD green  buttons, or did the early jackets only have brown buttons, later (when?) replaced with OD green buttons? Since I haven't reached a conclusion, I'm reposting it here, where I'd really like to hear your thoughts.

 

In the meantime, I also shared the topic with Pat Costa, who sent me the images below from the book "US Navy Uniform and Insignia 1943 - 1946," which feature pictures of khaki jackets with brown buttons. However, the contract number on the label is from June 1944.

 

Ultimately, it would be helpful to know in which month in 1943 the Navy issued the first khaki jackets and, given the respective contract numbers, if you remember the color of the buttons on those jacket: were they just brown, or green and brown?

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Unfortunately, you'll probably only find the answer in the Specification, which I have not found a copy of.  Sometimes the spec may say the button should match the cloth color, which would leave it up to the manufacturers discretion/opinion.  Other times it would specify the color. So until the spec is found, you'd have to judge from the contract numbers on the jacket label and speculate.

I did some research and this is what I found.

 

The only reference document I found is the 1941 "U.S. Navy Uniform Regulations." According to Pat Costa, who discusses it on his website of the same name, it was updated during the war with typewritten amendments sent to ships and stations in a memo format called "Circular Letters," which were then pasted onto copies of the "U.S. Navy Uniform Regulations." The author points out that, prior to the 1948 revision, no collection of U.S. Navy wartime updates had ever been compiled into a single publication. If we assume this, it becomes very difficult to find specific information on a change to a uniform issued in 1943.

 

Quartermaster 3.1 clarifies that the Navy specification for the N-1 winter jacket is 37J3 (INT).

 

On the website https://www.usww2uniforms.com/USNquery.html, which contains an invaluable database of contracts for American World War II uniforms, I searched for early contracts for the N-1 winter jacket and found the numbers shown in the image below. I therefore hypothesize that the first contracts for the khaki versions were were numbered around 20.XXX. I spoke with Chris Reuscher, who runs the site, who clarified that the contract numbers listed are not all those actually produced, but only those for which he found documentation.  Confirming this is the beautiful UDT "deck jacket", by member Tonomachi, which bears the contract number 26141 (April 1943) and has green buttons.

 

I also found (courtesy The Mayor's Tailor site) another khaki jacket with contract number 38051 (October 1944) and brown buttons.

 

Finally, I found 37J2  Jacket, Jungle-Cloth specification (1940) which concerns the blue version with the front zipper and "D" pockets. It contains this information on page 5: "...Copies of Navy Department Specification and any other specifications forming a part thereof may be obtained upon application to the Bureau of Supplies and Accounts, Navy Department, Washington, DC. Where this Bureau was abolished in 1966, and its successor is you, that is: the Naval Supply Systems Command (NAVSUP)."

 

I recently tried to write to NAVSUP; I hope they can help.

 

In conclusion, it would be great if someone on the forum could find or share specification 37J3 to clarify the issue regarding the buttons color.

 

 

One other thing to consider is that the Navy, would tell manufacturers, to use stocks of what they had on hand, before changing to a new item. 

To better understand your point, did you mean to say that in reality, in the 1940s, when manufacturers were awarded a contract, each of them could run out of available buttons before using the buttons required by the Navy specification?

13 hours ago, sigsaye said:

One other thing to consider is that the Navy, would tell manufacturers, to use stocks of what they had on hand, before changing to a new item. 

.

Hi YP13,

 

I can't specifically answer your N-1 jacket buttons question, but yes as Sigsaye states above manufacturers would use up stocks of buttons before any changes was made.

 

When I did research at the Quartermasters museum, Virginia in the late 80's they had a WWII hard-backed book of acceptable shades of HBT material, I believe the book held about eight shades.

 

I ran a militaria store early 1990's  late 2000's, I had approaching one thousand of original 1943 New Old Stock HBT ' shirt / jackets ' all folded as of the day of manufacture , there were various shades and various buttons although all were dated 1943 on the labels.   I recall there being five different style of buttons ALL acceptable, each manufacturer made choices by what was available from button manufacturers.  Shown attached a photo showing three of the different shades and three button styles, the one on the left a black metal button with a central depression holding the rivet, the middle jacket features brown ' plastic ' buttons, and on the right the black metal thirteen star buttons. 

 

Apologies for the poor quality photograph, it's been moved many times from computer to computer and degraded over time , but I think the details are still visible. 

 

 

 

regards lewis

Grazie per il tuo prezioso contributo Lewis!

 

 

Hi YP13.

 

I’m wondering why you’re asking about the buttons? Do you suspect that someone might have replaced the buttons on your jacket with different ones? Could you upload a photo of the one with the brown buttons? I think the best solution would be to look up various examples of N-1 jackets online and see if they appear with different types of buttons. And of course, compare your two jackets — that way you’ll know whether the brown buttons were replaced or not.

N-1 jackets aren’t really my area of expertise, but Navy WW2 chambray shirts are. I’ve seen examples of 55-S-20B pattern (introduced in 1941) with both blue and gray-brown buttons.

 

Cheers,

Jerry

 

11 minutes ago, jerry_k said:

Hi YP13.

 

I’m wondering why you’re asking about the buttons? Do you suspect that someone might have replaced the buttons on your jacket with different ones? Could you upload a photo of the one with the brown buttons? I think the best solution would be to look up various examples of N-1 jackets online and see if they appear with different types of buttons. And of course, compare your two jackets — that way you’ll know whether the brown buttons were replaced or not.

N-1 jackets aren’t really my area of expertise, but Navy WW2 chambray shirts are. I’ve seen examples of 55-S-20B pattern (introduced in 1941) with both blue and gray-brown buttons.

 

Cheers,

Jerry

 

Just a point, those jackets remained in use into the 1970s. They were handed out along with newer versions. At the end of the season, when we were to turn them back in, they would be cleaned and repaired. I occasionally would replace a list button, with whatever I had available. We once got a tri wall of cast off M-65 OD green jackets. I salvaged both buttons and zippers from those to repair our Foul Weather Jackets. 

On 31/10/2025 at 19:13, jerry_k said:

Ciao YP13.

 

Mi chiedo perché mi chiedi dei bottoni. Sospetti che qualcuno possa aver sostituito i bottoni della tua giacca con altri diversi? Potresti caricare una foto di quella con i bottoni marroni? Credo che la soluzione migliore sarebbe cercare online vari esempi di giacche N-1 e vedere se presentano tipi di bottoni diversi. E, naturalmente, confronta le tue due giacche: in questo modo saprai se i bottoni marroni sono stati sostituiti o meno.

Le giacche N-1 non sono esattamente il mio campo di competenza, ma le camicie in chambray della Marina Militare della Seconda Guerra Mondiale sì. Ho visto esempi del modello 55-S-20B (introdotto nel 1941) con bottoni sia blu che grigio-marroni.

 

Saluti,

Jerry

 

 

Hi Jerry,

 

Thanks for your contribution.

 

I have already done this type of research and, if you notice, I have previously put pictures of two N-1 jackets with different colored buttons, both relating to contracts from 1943. After "sigsaye's"  information, I have no doubt that these jackets could have had both buttons and I am still curious to know the contents of the Navy specification 37J3 regarding the khaki N-1 winter jacket.

 

For your information, I have two N-1 jackets, one with green buttons and one with brown buttons.

On 31/10/2025 at 19:28, sigsaye said:

Solo una cosa: quelle giacche rimasero in uso fino agli anni '70. Venivano distribuite insieme alle versioni più recenti. A fine stagione, quando dovevamo riconsegnarle, venivano pulite e riparate. Ogni tanto sostituivo un bottone con quello che avevo a disposizione. Una volta ricevemmo una parete tripla di giacche verdi M-65 OD dismesse. Ne recuperai sia i bottoni che le cerniere per riparare le nostre giacche antipioggia. 

Thanks you very much, for the previous information too.

 

Allow me this curiosity. Speaking of repairs, what do you think happened during the war when a jacket went in for repair because some a buttons had been lost? If the jacket had green buttons and only brown ones were available, did they replace just the missing buttons or all the buttons to match the color?

2 hours ago, YP13 said:

Thanks you very much, for the previous information too.

 

Allow me this curiosity. Speaking of repairs, what do you think happened during the war when a jacket went in for repair because some a buttons had been lost? If the jacket had green buttons and only brown ones were available, did they replace just the missing buttons or all the buttons to match the color?

Just what was missing or broken. These jackets were ships property. They were also considered disposable 

1 hour ago, sigsaye said:

Just what was missing or broken. These jackets were ships property. They were also considered disposable 

As an idiot to that last, most likely, buttons from jackets that were to be tossed, would be stripped of any useable parts, to repair others. Aboard most ships, there is not the space to keep a bunch of stuff to repair things like jackets , helmets, kapok life jackets.   Mostly, old worn out stuff is just stripped of useable parts, which get stuffed in a box in sn

out of the way corner. 

Thanks again!

 

I'm taking this opportunity to post one of the most beautiful photos, that really illustrates the Navy's need to issue new N-1 winter jacket.

 

 

 

Courtesy thenavy_ism

6 hours ago, YP13 said:

 

Hi Jerry,

 

Thanks for your contribution.

 

I have already done this type of research and, if you notice, I have previously put pictures of two N-1 jackets with different colored buttons, both relating to contracts from 1943. After "sigsaye's"  information, I have no doubt that these jackets could have had both buttons and I am still curious to know the contents of the Navy specification 37J3 regarding the khaki N-1 winter jacket.

 

For your information, I have two N-1 jackets, one with green buttons and one with brown buttons.

 

Hi.

 

You can try asking forum member Dustin; maybe he found the N-1 spec in NARA. For sure, he has a J4 jungle cloth jacket spec (1168)...

8 hours ago, YP13 said:

Thanks again!

 

I'm taking this opportunity to post one of the most beautiful photos, that really illustrates the Navy's need to issue new N-1 winter jacket.

 

 

 

Courtesy thenavy_ism

I loved the old N-1s. They were much warmer than their replacements. The alpaca lining and collar facing were really warm. For most of my time in the Navy, I was 6 foot, 4 inches, 225 pounds. It got harder and harder to find jackets big enough for me. I generally took a size 50, so I had wished I had hung onto the 1 I had that fit. 

On 10/29/2025 at 9:26 AM, YP13 said:

Finally, I found 37J2  Jacket, Jungle-Cloth specification (1940) which concerns the blue version with the front zipper and "D" pockets. It contains this information on page 5: "...Copies of Navy Department Specification and any other specifications forming a part thereof may be obtained upon application to the Bureau of Supplies and Accounts, Navy Department, Washington, DC. Where this Bureau was abolished in 1966, and its successor is you, that is: the Naval Supply Systems Command (NAVSUP)."

 

In conclusion, it would be great if someone on the forum could find or share specification 37J3 to clarify the issue regarding the buttons color.

 

 

Where did you find this? Just curious.

 

Father Vasquez 

 

16 hours ago, jerry_k said:

 

CIAO.

 

Puoi provare a chiedere a Dustin, membro del forum; forse ha trovato la specifica N-1 su NARA. Di sicuro, ha una specifica per la giacca in tessuto da giungla J4 (1168)...

 

Thanks Jerry for the advice.

 

I'll try to make an appeal here: @Dustin I can't find the Navy spec 37J3 for the N-1 winter jacket. Could you help me, please? I'd be very grateful.

 

Many thanks.

Antonio

 

 

9 ore fa, Padre V ha detto:

 

Dove l'hai trovato? Solo per curiosità.

 

Padre Vasquez 

 

 

Durante la ricerca sui pulsanti, come ho accennato sopra, ho avuto l'opportunità di scambiare opinioni con Chris Reuscher, che gestisce il sito web https://www.usww2uniforms.com/USNquery.html.   È una persona molto disponibile e gentile e mi ha anche fornito le specifiche 37J2 (ma non ha mai trovato la 37J3).

 

Ora spero che Dustin riesca a trovare le specifiche della giacca invernale 37J3 N-1!

Oh, I understand now. Thanks!

On 10/7/2025 at 2:21 PM, YP13 said:

Hi Guys,

 

I recently posed this question in "Uniform Buttons" section: when the Navy issued an updated khaki version of the N-1 jacket in 1943 (the first N-1 jacket was blue), did the early jackets have both brown and OD green  buttons, or did the early jackets only have brown buttons, later (when?) replaced with OD green buttons? Since I haven't reached a conclusion, I'm reposting it here, where I'd really like to hear your thoughts.

 

Ultimately, it would be helpful to know in which month in 1943 the Navy issued the first khaki jackets and, given the respective contract numbers, if you remember the color of the buttons on those jacket: were they just brown, or green and brown?

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Hi YP13,

 

I hope you feel that you are getting some helpful advice here from the contributors, and I do hope you find the answers you require. 

 

Sometimes I think we over-think things,  and believe there were hard and fast rules as to how things were done or made in WWII, but there were allowances made.  

 

 

As I mentioned earlier in post #6,  When I did research at the Quartermasters museum, Virginia in the late 80's they had a WWII hard-backed book of acceptable shades of HBT material, I believe the book held about eight shades.

 

As part of my collecting I loved finding  or collecting the unusual, often standing conventional theories on their heads.  Lots of collectors get locked into thinking about ' Early & Late ' shade of the materials.  Please allow me to show these M1943 shovel covers from my collection featuring light and dark shades of Olive Drab, however check out the dates which don't follow conventional thinking, there was a war on, and sometimes the hard and fast rules were allowed to drift a little, or sometimes just ignored.

 

 

 

 

 

 

regards lewis

 

...

 

 

.

Hi YP13,

 

I will apologise and say this is my last intervention in your thread,  I am just trying to show that conventional theory sometimes stands on it's head. 

 

Lots of collectors and newer people into the hobby would consider the Eagle Snap closures to be the earlier example before Lift-the-dot closures. However these two 1918 Mills manufactured belts are in fact the opposite of that, looking at the dates  of January and May 1918. Why and what is the reason for this, is this correct or a manufacturer's mistake, who knows after one hundred and seven years, anyone one who would genuinely know is no longer with us.

 

Regards to you and I am pleased that you are interested enough to try and find the answers to your own question on the N-1 deck jacket, I hope you succeed . 

 

 

 

regards lewis.

 

...

16 hours ago, General Apathy said:

.

Ciao YP13,

 

Spero che i collaboratori vi abbiano fornito qualche consiglio utile e che possiate trovare le risposte di cui avete bisogno. 

 

A volte penso che pensiamo troppo alle cose e crediamo che ci fossero regole rigide e veloci su come le cose venivano fatte o realizzate durante la seconda guerra mondiale, ma che in realtà venivano fatte delle concessioni.  

 

 

Come ho già accennato nel post n. 6, quando ho fatto delle ricerche al Quartermasters Museum in Virginia alla fine degli anni '80, avevano un libro con copertina rigida della Seconda Guerra Mondiale contenente le tonalità accettabili del materiale HBT; credo che il libro contenesse circa otto tonalità.

 

Nell'ambito del mio collezionismo, mi piaceva trovare o collezionare oggetti insoliti, spesso capovolti rispetto alle teorie convenzionali. Molti collezionisti si limitano a pensare alle tonalità "precoci" e "tardive" dei materiali. Permettetemi di mostrarvi queste coperture per pale M1943 della mia collezione, caratterizzate da tonalità chiare e scure di verde oliva. Tuttavia, date un'occhiata alle date che non seguono il pensiero convenzionale: c'era una guerra in corso, e a volte le regole ferree venivano lasciate vagare un po', o a volte semplicemente ignorate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

saluti lewis

 

...

 

 

 

 

Thanks Lewis for your support.

 

Honestly, I'm generally very satisfied with the support I've received. I haven't yet received the specification I've been looking for, but my greatest curiosity has been satisfied, and I thank everyone who contributed once again. I learned something I didn't know: that the Navy allowed the use of stock items before new items. This explains why, from the very first jackets issued, you can see versions with both green and brown buttons, regardless of what might be listed in specification 37J3. This was the main question I was trying to answer.