Just brought home my first 1903. It has an interesting lineage. It's a 'high serial #' Rock Island Armory rifle. Original Remington stock (involved story on how it came to be). Still retains cartouches & hasn't been redone. Usually a rifle like this ends up sanded within inches of its life & polyurethaned

 

 

 

I like the looks of her.  Nice solid rifle.

With that, it looks to me like a post war rebuild of a mixture of parts.  Please do give the story of how a post WW1 receiver got a Remington made and marked stock along with a very late WW2 replacement barrel and what appears to be a Greek added number on the butt of the stock.

With a good bore it should be a great grouping rifle.

First, you have a good eye I'm assuming you keyed in on the inspectors stamp? She took a winding path to get in that form. I like the unusual. Prior to Rock Island shutting down the reciever & other miscellaneous parts were made. At shutdown all unused parts were made before 1922. When RIA shutdown all parts were sent to Remington. Explains the acceptance  stamp) After that she joined joined the war effort went & went thru a rebuild. At that time she got the later era bands & barrel (some speculation re: when she got what parts). As far as the Greek? No idea. Her '44 barrel shows some wear which could be from use in the war after which she was sent to Greece. If that's the case it should have import marks.

 

As odd as it seems this 1903 has all original parts. The bore is shiny with distinct rifling. Like I said I prefer the rifles which tell a story & this one has one heck of a story before being sent to war. Dang thing hasn't been refinished  (thank God). 

 

 

Remington Arms was not in the 1903 business until 1941.  Remingtons first rifles were accepted late in 1941 under the RLB inspection marking.  Up until the 1903A3 was put into production Remington stocks did not sport the RA marking, yours is a later production Remington stock. Cant see if it has the A3 handguard cut.

The parts from RIA when they closed went to Springfield Armory; both numbered and non numbered receivers.  SA put them into the mix as needed post WW1. Non numbered receivers got a Sn from SA and can be found with most any serviceable part from the era pre WW2.

Greek return 1903s came in thru the CMP and did not require import markings.

Springfield Armory made a run of replacement 1903 barrels for a huge rebuild in 1942 then that was it.  Remington did not get involved in rebuilding 1903s; they were too busy making new rifles and shotguns. They did make some spare parts as SA had stopped making them and were focused on the M1. High Standard got a contract to make replacement barrels starting around 2-44 up to 12-44 markings seen. Post WW2 these barrels were used to rebuild 1903s with the intention to sell and to provide post war military aid to various countries.

Good read on the rifle. Looks like the only thing I'm off on is the date. The rest of the story is told by the rifle itself. You're right about the import marks (lack of) I was thinking that as soon as I posted. It is a bona fide M1903, just didn't see the light of day as early as I thought. Where did you see the mark/cartouche re: the Greece?  currently have the rifle disassembled. Can take additional pics if you like. Seems I can learn more about the rifle from you. Appreciate the input.

 

 

Well, what “read” I see is a rebuilt rifle that does not have anything at all to do with Remington other than it got a used stock during its post WW2 rebuild along with a new barrel and assorted other serviceable parts, then was stored until it went to the Greeks as a aid package deal.

Assuming it is in fact a high number RIA receiver and the headspace is proper it should be safe and a good shooter.  I just do not see anything that suggest anything other than a typical post WW2 rebuild here.  The 4 numbers on the right side of the stock are traits of “Greek returns”  along with a pinned and “B” marked magazine floor plate.  These were  sold thru the CMP in the late 90s. The stock could have been added to your rifle later by someone upgrading a barreled action…who knows.  Usually Greek rifles are jet black blue/parkerizing, so the best way to judge a rifle is just as a sum of its parts.  Lots…lots of sporterized rifles were rebuilt or upgraded with the parts and wood from CMP sales guns.

 Yeah, thanks for the info. I think I'll go with my gunsmiths take. He tracked it made during war, assembled by Remington with RIA parts. I should be seeing him tomorrow & will double check. As I spoke with him he pulled out 2 1903s & had several more on his wall showing differences in all.

I fully agree with RHscott's assessment of your rifle.

32 minutes ago, MSB59 said:

 Yeah, thanks for the info. I think I'll go with my gunsmiths take. He tracked it made during war, assembled by Remington with RIA parts. I should be seeing him tomorrow & will double check. As I spoke with him he pulled out 2 1903s & had several more on his wall showing differences in all.

To be frank, your “gunsmith” is spouting BS. What you choose to believe is on you. Your gunsmith had 100% more chance of assembling this rifle than Remington did. 
Buy the rifle, not the story. 

There was no need for the 'RA' stamp when Remington was the only maker. So the stock could not have been made earlier than Nov '42.

 

Monthly status reports start separately listing 'returned stock - after repair' in Dec 44, averaging almost 40,000 per month until dropping to under 1,000 in Dec '45 (the last date reported in this form). With over half a million repairs/rebuilds during the period, this might be a good candidate for including the OP's rifle.

 

I have frequently heard vague assertions of postwar rebuild programs - and a 1947 report shows about 2/3rds of OD stocks in the 'repairable' category - but have never seen a quantity from a legitimate source showing how many or when.

Firstflabn provided dates, a framework which could allowed for additional conversation. Rhscott however made it personal by saying my gunsmith full of poppycock. You do not  know him. I'd toss outI your attempt to show how you know  erudit you are. Unfortunately to do so you belittle ppl. narcissistic personalities like yours are what gives Forums a bad name. Don't bother responding  -  I'm not going to to be a member any longer

6 hours ago, MSB59 said:

Firstflabn provided dates, a framework which could allowed for additional conversation.

A variant of 'needs more study' is the last ditch for those who refuse to accept that their repeated earlier claims are wrong - change the subject, spin, minimize, deflect. I regret wasting my time replying. Now I'm way behind on my goofing off.

Guess yall told me! I've known my gunsmith for 20 years. Firstflabn at least laid out dates & a framework which provded opportunity for a continued conversation. Rhscott & Robinb's conversation/rant really were attempts to appear erudit at the cost of a new member. Additionally you do not know anything about my gunsmith, so it appears when you say he's  spouting poppycock seems to be a personal shot at him & me. Your naris

 

Thx Flirstflabn if there were more of you this site would b a great forum

 

51 minutes ago, MSB59 said:

Thx Flirstflabn if there were more of you this site would b a great forum

 

"Would be a great Forum"

?

Hey buddy, you are getting off to real bad start.

You asked for opinions and advice.

If you dont want to take it thats your business.

Rhscott never slammed you personally.

He just gave an opinion about your gunsmith.

You, if you did not agree with the opinions presented to you.

Had the option to just say thank you and and that would have been that.

But you followed with this...

" Yeah, thanks for the info. I think I'll go with my gunsmiths take."

Then why ask what people think on here?

And if thats what you are going to do, why announce it?

Actually Bud, its you thats being rude.

And for a new member, you not only insulted Rhscott,

you insulted everyone who enjoys and appreciates this forum.

Your self resignation from the forum seems appropriate.

Thats my 5 cents.

Happy Trails.

 

 

 

it's too bad how this went all to hell but I also will say that I agree with the poppyock statement, I don't know anything about your gunsmith but the gun is clearly a ww2 rebuild and most likely a cmp greek return that can be enjoyed as a great shooter and get you more interested in gaining more knowledge about the 1903 rifle and to look for a nice collector piece in the future. this forum is a very well run forum with very respectful peaple on it, if you back off a bit I'm sure you can benefit from it and enjoy it.

"I have frequently heard vague assertions of postwar rebuild programs - and a 1947 report shows about 2/3rds of OD stocks in the 'repairable' category - but have never seen a quantity from a legitimate source showing how many or when."

 

A case of 10 1903 Arsenal Rebuilds from either 48 or 58 judging by the label. And no zip code use. in the address., 2 in their wax paper wrappings still.

All in their railroad shipping crate just sold a couple weeks ago fo 12,000 bucks.

So its really not "Vague Assertions" like you say.

 

https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/34196-ultra-rare-one-of-a-kind-grouping-10-springfield-m1903-rifles-in-shipping-crate.html

 

"2/16/25 - This is an ultra rare, one-of-a-kind grouping of 10 Springfield Model 1903 rifles in their original Raritan Arsenal wood shipping crate. The crate still has its original Raritan Arsenal shipping label that states the original shipment included 10 pieces - we have all 10 rifles here! Eight of the rifles are unwrapped, but two are still in their original wax paper covering ("mummy guns"). The guns have various manufacture years and various arsenal-replaced parts - the barrels are mostly late WW2, many of the parts are WWI vintage, and a few of the receivers feature hatcher-holes. Five of the guns have period-correct leather slings. Generally, the guns are in very nice, un-issued condition, showing very little sign of actual wear. However, the guns are generally dusty, dirty, and some parts are covered in cosmoline. We are confident the guns will clean up very nice, but we decided to leave them in their original condition and let the buyer decide what they'd like to do with them. There are some spots of oxidation and light rust on some of the metal parts here and there, but nothing major. The wood crate is in pretty nice condition after all these years, but the top lid is split in half. As you can see, it has its original shipping labels and "Rush Railway Express Agency" sticker. Inside the crate are also some cleaning kits, a glass jar of solder, and a few original dog tags from the GI who acquired this grouping. This is a truly unique piece of history that has miraculously stayed together all these years!"

 

I saw that listing on legacy, it didnt realy impress me much. it's a box of rebuilds that got sent to a legion or vfw post and somehow got away from them. they dont mention the condition of the bores but they might not be too good, my post has a box of 1917 enfields that are mostly rebuilds with realy bad bores from blank fireing salutes. they should actually still be govt property and turned in to the cmp if the post turns over it's charter but we know how that goes.

1 hour ago, The Rooster said:

"I have frequently heard vague assertions of postwar rebuild programs - and a 1947 report shows about 2/3rds of OD stocks in the 'repairable' category - but have never seen a quantity from a legitimate source showing how many or when."

 

A case of 10 1903 Arsenal Rebuilds from either 48 or 58 judging by the label. And no zip code use. in the address., 2 in their wax paper wrappings still.

All in their railroad shipping crate just sold a couple weeks ago fo 12,000 bucks.

So its really not "Vague Assertions" like you say.

Unless you're saying the date on the shipping label represents the rebuild date, I don't understand your point. My post that you quoted refers to 'rebuild program' which means an ongoing activity. DCM began receiving 1903s in 1946, so it's no surprise to see an anecdote from around that time.

4 hours ago, firstflabn said:

Unless you're saying the date on the shipping label represents the rebuild date, I don't understand your point. My post that you quoted refers to 'rebuild program' which means an ongoing activity. DCM began receiving 1903s in 1946, so it's no surprise to see an anecdote from around that time.

My point is the ad above is an illustration that their were Arsenal Rebuilds and heres a crate of them.

 

Rebuilding was the main way 1903s were produced for the Army post WW1 until SA and later Remington did production runs in 1938-40 and 1941-43 respectively.  There is tons of info on the high/Low Sn# exchange process SA conducted post WW1 up to WW2 available on line. Once the war started rebuilding was an ongoing process by the Army at various locations such as Augusta (cheaper to rebuild there than at SA) and Raritan Arsenal. Here is some info> In the period 1943-1945, 7,168 M1903s were repaired or overhauled in 1943, 4,970 in 1944 and 60,931 in Fiscal Year 1945 at Springfield Armory. These figures are taken from William Brophy's Arsenal of Freedom: The Springfield Armory, 1890-1948, which is made up of reprints of official armory yearly reports.  This just reflects Springfield.  FN was even engaged in cleaning, sorting and minor repair of US small arms by 1945-46.  Augusta, Raritan, Ogden, and Red River Arsenals were busy rebuilding 1903s and 1917s to put rifles in troops hands.  Post WW2 (also in FY 1945) a major overhaul of all US small arms was started.  Some completed weapons were destined for reissue, some to storage crates, some for sale but it seems the goal was complete rebuild or at least serviceability/ safety checks and update to any new versions of parts. This is not even taking into account the various levels in each service below depo level that conducted limited rebuild of small arms used up or damaged in that service. FWIW the M1903 was not declared obsolete until July 24, 1947, while the 1903A3 remained in Navy racks and some National Guard racks into the early 1950s, so there was a need for post war rebuild.

FY45 ended on June 30, 1945, so your only significant quantity is not postwar. Steve Norton has mentioned OD replacing rusty buttplates on 1903s badly stored, but I don't recall him giving any overall quantities on postwar rebuilds. Haven't seen him around lately; hope he won the lottery and is currently sipping a drink with an umbrella in it. As much as both of us would like to see some hard numbers, there's not much out there beyond the few tens of thousands I mentioned previously. Scenario building is a useful tool to build a research plan, but it doesn't do much to address  my initial reply which (intentionally) used the word 'quantity' and implied a broad view with the use of 'program.'

9 hours ago, firstflabn said:

FY45 ended on June 30, 1945, so your only significant quantity is not postwar. Steve Norton has mentioned OD replacing rusty buttplates on 1903s badly stored, but I don't recall him giving any overall quantities on postwar rebuilds. Haven't seen him around lately; hope he won the lottery and is currently sipping a drink with an umbrella in it. As much as both of us would like to see some hard numbers, there's not much out there beyond the few tens of thousands I mentioned previously. Scenario building is a useful tool to build a research plan, but it doesn't do much to address  my initial reply which (intentionally) used the word 'quantity' and implied a broad view with the use of 'program.'

Interesting topic to say the least.  Do forgive me but how did we migrate here to when rebuilds were done or stopped?  

 The OP asserted the subject topic 1903 was a RIA receiver with its “original” Remington stock on it, which he stated is because when RIA closed all the parts were sent to Remington for assembly.  Time lines and history show this is a completely incorrect statement.

How, when or where a Remington stock made it onto this Rock Island action with a very late High Standard 1944 barrel is anyone’s guess but more likely than not it was during a rebuild…either here during OR post WW2 or in Greece as by all indications that is the origin of the stock; or again post war by someone adding a nicer to stock to that action. The pictures are poor and there is no mention if the 4 numbers on the shown stock even match the receivers numbers which also are not mentioned. Can I say that the stock is an original Remington stock…Yes, looks like it.  Is it the 1st original stock that this 1922 RIA action ever wore? I just don’t see how. 

Not sure it matters.

It is what it is.