May 27, 20242 yr #1 For years I've been led to believe that these bags are for 30 caliber Chauchat magazines. But today I was looking through a 1935 Bannerman's catalog and he has them described as bomb bags. Everything else in the catalog appears to be described correctly, so why not this bag as well?
May 27, 20242 yr #2 I wondered why a US belt was developed for the Chauchat magazines as well as the bag. Anyone have government specs to confirm the Bannerman's catalog entry?
May 27, 20242 yr #3 The Marines used the Chauchat extensively in WWI. I believe that’s why some equipment was developed for it. Sorry, I dont have specs. The Marines carried the French made bag as well for the half moon clips for the Chauchat.
May 27, 20242 yr #4 13 hours ago, warguy said: The Marines used the Chauchat extensively in WWI. I believe that’s why some equipment was developed for it. Sorry, I dont have specs. The Marines carried the French made bag as well for the half moon clips for the Chauchat. The AEF as a whole used the Chauchat, not only the Marine Brigade of the 2nd Division. The BAR came into use late in the war, but not as extensively as the Chauchat. I think the French magazine pouch was the most widely used item for carrying ammunition. I don't believe many, if any at all, of the US belts for straight magazines were used. It would be nice to know if the Bannerman's entry is correct.
May 28, 20242 yr Author #5 A 1918 booklet on infantry regimental equipment lists a grenade bucket for hand bomb carriers.
May 28, 20242 yr #6 It does seem a more practical design for carrying grenades rather than loose auto rifle magazines.
May 28, 20242 yr Author #7 Well, where is anything in period print telling us that it's a Chauchat bag? I think the evidence weighs in favor of a grenade bag.
May 28, 20242 yr #8 AGM has had at least two of those bags in their catalogs over the last 15 years, both identical to this one and listed as for the Chauchat. The US utilized a straight Chauchat magazine (similar to a BAR's but longer), for the automatic chambered in 30-06. Besides the grenade vest, there was already a grenade pouch in use by the AEF that utilized a 3-snap closure at the top - though I would hardly call that a bucket.
May 28, 20242 yr Author #9 That booklet I show, on the next page, lists a Grenade Carrier. I believe that refers to the 3 snap pouch. So, there are two different bags listed. Now refer to the quantity of grenades each member of the hand bomber section is allotted. I tested the quantities in both bags. I put 10 grenades in the 3 snap carrier bag and while more will fit, 10 seems to be the maximum weight that that bag would carry comfortably. Then I tried 18 grenades into the bucket. 20 will fit easily, and the wider strap makes it feel right. Plus, the leather reinforced bottom, I can see, would be advantageous.
May 28, 20242 yr Author #10 "I wondered why a US belt was developed for the Chauchat magazines as well as the bag. Anyone have government specs to confirm the Bannerman's catalog entry?" I am not aware of a Chauchat magazine belt. There is a gunners belt, but there are no magazine pockets for the Chauchat on that belt.
May 28, 20242 yr #11 7 hours ago, robinb said: "I wondered why a US belt was developed for the Chauchat magazines as well as the bag. Anyone have government specs to confirm the Bannerman's catalog entry?" I am not aware of a Chauchat magazine belt. There is a gunners belt, but there are no magazine pockets for the Chauchat on that belt. You are correct. A poor choice of words on my part. Also, defective memory. Temporary, I hope. I looked at my example of the belt and all was made clear again.
May 28, 20242 yr #12 Rob is the bucket dated? I think we also have to factor the timing of the publication here as well. A 1919 publication may well have other odd gear called out in it that was still in development mid 18. I checked America's Munitions last night for Chau chat gear but didn't dig into the grenade section....
May 28, 20242 yr Author #13 Both of mine are dated 1918 and the month, but I'll have to go look at them to get the month for you.
May 28, 20242 yr Author #15 Mine are also RH Long 2-18. So do we know when the 30 caliber Chauchat came out?
May 28, 20242 yr #16 Bonjour. It is indeed a bag for M18 magazines. There is a hand grenade and VB carrying vest. I have never met a three-press bag in France. Nor photo showing use.
May 28, 20242 yr Author #17 Do you have a picture of the bag in question being used as a Chauchat magazine bag?
May 28, 20242 yr #18 Photos depicting the M 18 are very rare. And the equipment relating. I'll search through my documentation.
May 28, 20242 yr #19 4 hours ago, robinb said: Mine are also RH Long 2-18. So do we know when the 30 caliber Chauchat came out? mass production did not begin until the end january 1918, at the rate of 6.000 rifles per month. Deliveries to A.E.F. followed from march 1918. (The Chauchat Machine Rifle. Y Buffetaut)
September 11, 20241 yr #20 Very good, even if not completely definitive, information. I am going through a deaccessioning process with my WW1 collection trying to decide what I retain and what I try to sell. This helps. I know the US version of the gun was used in the closing days of the war because its magazines have been recovered. Any conjecture on if associated accoutrements got to the troops? The fact the belt i have is unit marked to the 36th Division seems to confirm this, but I've seen no photographic evidence so far. Post-Armistice issue?
September 11, 20241 yr #21 Bonjour. The US shosho in action. It is difficult to distinguish the equipment with certainty
September 11, 20241 yr #22 40 minutes ago, solcarlus said: Bonjour. The US shosho in action. It is difficult to distinguish the equipment with certainty Yes, that's the problem. I've seen images of Doughboys using the French magazine pouch, but no images with US accoutrements.
September 11, 20241 yr #23 The bag shown is a Chauchat Magazine Carrier. See description below from a 1918 contract. Sorry I do not have a drawing for it. The Grenade Bucket is a very distinct item. I personally have never seen one in a photo or in person. Best Jon P
September 11, 20241 yr #24 1 hour ago, jprostak said: The bag shown is a Chauchat Magazine Carrier. See description below from a 1918 contract. Sorry I do not have a drawing for it. The Grenade Bucket is a very distinct item. I personally have never seen one in a photo or in person. Best Jon P Do you think any belts and magazine pouches saw action?
September 12, 20241 yr #25 Bonjour. While researching the A.E.F., a friend found this photo. It has all the glory of me being a musette for U.S. magazines.
Create an account or sign in to comment