Recently a cache of unissued M1 Carbine magazine pouches and slings was found in China. They are presumably just WWII lend-lease aid to the ROC. However the tags on the bundles of say they were manufactured by PLA factory #3521 which was a large factory that produced a large amount of PLA equipment including ammo pouches of PLA design, so they definitely would have had the capacity to have manufactured these if they wanted to for some reason. Again the most likely just WWII aid that was repacked at 3521. For what it’s worth 3521 was in Nanjing and the observed dates on the bundles range from 1967 to 1969. 

 

But I would like to get the opinion of the experts as to whether they are indeed originally US manufactured items. Two things stand out:

The snaps are marked Rau FastenFr Co. rather than Rau FastenEr Co. Has anyone seen this misspelling before? 

I know most or all of the USSR lend-lease that came back to the US a while back had no “U.S.” stamps, does anyone have more insight into how lend-lease gear was marked? 

 

The hardware on the sling looks odd, too.

34 minutes ago, robinb said:

The hardware on the sling looks odd, too.

Thanks, here's a closeup if that helps

bogus.

Is it just me or is the font width on the "U.S." stamp off from what it should be....

Sling looks very suspicious, metal C tip looks wrong.

Updike Awning Co 1943 OD3 is a legit carbine pouch manufacturer, whether this is a legit pouch though?

The font looks off, and I have never seen the Rau fastener stamped like that, on all my carbine pouches it is stamped correctly (over 40 in my collection) all different manufacturers and dates.

Without holding and touchy feely and smelling it, I would be cautious with it.

Just my 2 cents though, could be wrong.

 

1 hour ago, Browninggunner688 said:

The font looks off, and I have never seen the Rau fastener stamped like that, on all my carbine pouches it is stamped correctly (over 40 in my collection) all different manufacturers and dates.

 

Thanks, you're just the kind of expert I was looking for. 

 

The most straight forward answer seemed like they were just WWII leftovers. But if that isn't the case then that leads to some interesting questions as to why they were made. I would say they could have been made for the Chinese militia who continued to use WWII weapons into the 1980s. However if that were the intended use it makes no sense for them to put "US" markings and forge manufacturers markings. So although it sounds pretty fantastical, the only answer I can think of is they were made for covert support of allied communist insurgencies they didn't want traced back to them.

 

Also found alongside them were copies of M1956 ammunition pouches and M1 slings, where were labeled as "M14" pouches and slings. China is known to have produced a copy of the M14 rifle as well as 7.62x51 ammunition, pouches, and other accessories for them. The M14s are known to have been supplied to both the Communist Party of Burma's People's Liberation Army and the Communist Party of the Philippines's New People's Army. This was happening in the late 1960s, early 1970s, very close to the 1967-1969 dates on the bundles of M1 Carbine pouches & slings.  

 

What is curious however is with these "M14" pouches they did not make even half the effort of imitating originals. They have no ink stamps of any kind. The metal hardware was painted green rather than being blackened, and the color and weave of the fabric is not a great match for US M1956 pouches. So it is a bit strange that they would put so much more effort into copying the M1 carbine pouches. 

8 hours ago, Cap Camouflage Pattern I said:

Also found alongside them were copies of M1956 ammunition pouches and M1 slings, where were labeled as "M14" pouches and slings. China is known to have produced a copy of the M14 rifle as well as 7.62x51 ammunition, pouches, and other accessories for them. The M14s are known to have been supplied to both the Communist Party of Burma's People's Liberation Army and the Communist Party of the Philippines's New People's Army. This was happening in the late 1960s, early 1970s, very close to the 1967-1969 dates on the bundles of M1 Carbine pouches & slings. 

I have owned that 7.62x51 ammunition you mentioned.  The headstamp was a close copy of British Radway Green.  It was still a steel case washed in copper, and even the tin it came in was marked in English.  They made a deliberate attempt to disguise their manufacture of their items in this covert application.  maybe they marking a pouch with a US stamp isnt that far of a stretch for them at that time.  Im not saying anything about the pouches you posted about, just my experience with their ammo used as you mentioned. 

Yep, bogus. 

Slings are 100% reproduction's or as said above "bogus".   I'm also calling the magazine pockets, or pouches, repro's. 

These are turning up on Ebay

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115788933254?hash=item1af58ee886:g:kb4AAOSwL5ZkJg2U

 

 

Same seller.  Looks like the same pouch but a different maker.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275826814052?hash=item40388f2c64:g:picAAOSwwutkTsLr

This guy is selling them out of China

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/385518381240?hash=item59c2afa8b8:g:iP4AAOSwto1kKD0s&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4ImJ0M6LF0fIq4%2Fkd74Pit1m1GaYplpXBa7vSLmRGb3PQzv6o46ZEIZ%2BI1gBALJliKCaNeXhUDsLVTcbjBoHCBK9W5ESMKg3E%2BSkUEuawufsRGeTCW5A8a0ErTgCeJbhye4vcBYivFqCfZ7qc2gi4M5l7rgoVaahl9xr5Ev6vqaRwHjnyxrPkh%2FqHfPvkT7RrAQ7Vn%2BAEBluZ5D2FBbUWm2wJ%2FhQNjn%2BScDs3HVoopaKhpJLc8t0bBEiEpkr4mnGFfMTlr045ZFsaT3GpdSqKlyOhN63bsJg4An5TnSTTD9D|tkp%3ABFBMuNLHtv5h

 

Possible real Updike Awning?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185848472802?hash=item2b456ea4e2:g:S0wAAOSwUQZkMdur&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4O%2FnEw6VA6W1y8xRnOr%2BUorpOxSq6aexl57wkogCDL1ESoNTEpC2J%2FDWZ%2FOH7vFsiH1VobZKIfjVimlCS2mUQVeSUqJQxh%2Bypq75csvHMr5Nggedj1oZIUrYu9ijjV16URPlM%2BLRmDwFq2ck3vrjImCXvc4t4o3e1SvskJNAHsjGh7nN9GIwyp74Ot%2B2UF%2Bd8o6EXMB4px0wBkHGyG79krdEVoO0jXraSuczKxsMyS1428B1aV3m%2BN%2FyujJj5IUvJQPfGYQSouWegOgKPkvU8Y5SpHLmZtMVlnNtCHF2VJTb|tkp%3ABk9SR7jSx7b-YQ

The LTD's are different.

 

China then the real? one.

Top picture definitely the fake ones in question.

Bottom picture definitely an original pouch. 

 

I seriously can't believe that people are buying these reproduction ones at those prices, there are plenty of good original ones out there a lot cheaper.

 

Collectors need to buy books, browse this excellent forum and the interweb for information and pictures of original examples. Knowledge is power (and a good saving on buying original items against cheap trash like these.)

 

Rant over.

 

Nick.

Are we so certain that the Updike Awning pouches are reproductions? I am not.

 

I purchased this example at a gun show here in Canada back in the 1990s for $5 or $10. It is identical to the ones being sold on Ebay today. 

 

So what are the chances that someone was manufacturing a reproduction (in China or elsewhere) 25 years ago with a correctly marked snap fastener and correct type of materials? And notice that the LTD on my pouch is the same type as the lower, well used original in post #14.

 

I don't see any reason to conclude so certainly that the top pouch in post #14 is a fake. It is quite possible, moreover, that the pouches shown in post #1 are originals. These could easily be leftovers of wartime lend-lease to China. 

 

 

As far as I know, Updike Awning was a real manufacturer, of at least M1 Carbine mag pouches, because I've had a few come through over the years (correct material, hardware, age). What I've personally observed is that there's stamps floating around of the 'US' and 'Updike Awning 1943 Co', reproduced exactly as shown on the pouch in post #16. One of these Updike stamps was applied to around 15 different pieces of web gear/ pouches at a local show years ago (same vendor), and were obvious due to their newness vs the piece of gear they were on. The US stamp was used on pieces where the original had faded (and sometimes the faded original was a different style 'US'). So because it appears there's at least one stamp floating around, I've become wary of anything marked to that manufacturer.