Last week driving through AK I purchased a WW2 era wooden box that had contained RA (Rem.Arm.) 12 gauge #8 chilled shot, shotgun shells. That got me wondering the ammunition used for tow target weapons, as my uncle spent most of WW2 stationed at Kingman Army Air Corp Field at Kingman, AZ. One mission of the base was to train machine gun operators, who would end up defending bombers in unfriendly skies. He had several interesting stories of when the tow-pilot fliers thought the trainees were shooting at the plane rather than the tow-sock. After the pilot landed there would be fist-fights to help correct the aim of the shooters. Was the 12 gauge #8 shot used for this practice? Were there several different weapons used in this training?

Illinigander

Check out this page for some interesting info on your question:

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/03/20/rare-wwii-shotgun-anti-aircraft-trainer-surfaces

or:

https://lsbauctions.com/9407/remington-bell-aircraft-wwii-aaf-sportsman-aerial-gunnery-anti-aircraft-trainer-shotgun-cradle-1944/

I know that they practiced skeet shooting.

 

Could be for that.

Both the Army and Navy used shotguns for primary aerial gunnery training, preferring autoloaders used from the back of a moving truck. The #8 Chilled Shot and #8 Chilled Shot with Tracer were procured in 25 round and 10 round cartons. Here is a photo showing gunnery training and a 10 round box of shells.

 

Here is another photo published during the war: From the looks of the terrain, this could have been taken at Kingman.

If the crate you found is for 500 rounds, then it is most likely contained 10-25 round boxes of shells. The individual boxes would have been wrapped in a foil/paper outer wrap for protection. Here is a 25 round carton:

Thank you opus 50, manayunkak, and silverplate- The film was great, liked the explanation of the system and the 1/2 ton Dodges (I have a 1942 WC 21). Some of those photos could well have been Kingman. They had a small museum there but it closed about five years ago. I have a 25 round Western Cartridge Company box tho it is 6c.

illinigander

I think what the original poster was after ammunition used for the actual tow targets by aircraft. It appears that all the responses were orientated towards aerial gunnery using shotguns firing at ground launch clay pigeons. With aerial tow targets, actual 30-06 ammunition was used but with wooden bullets that shattered upon impact if they hit the aircraft they presenting no real danger or damage. This method allowed real time training.

Towed target sleeves were shot at with standard .30 caliber ammunition. Later, in order to make the training more realistic, frangible rounds were developed to shoot at modified (armored) aircraft. The frangible round had a bullet that was a mixture of powdered lead and bakelite, designed to shatter on impact. You can read about this program by searching for "Operation Pinball".

 

The pictures show a box of frangible rounds, and a modified P-63 used in Operation Pinball, and based at Kingman.

 

My apologies for the confusion on the original question.

What Frangible box is more common the t44, m22, or the T74 you have shown?

There seems to be better availability of the T-44 since I started looking for them.

The T-44 round production started during the summer of 1944, continuing until April 1945 when its nomenclature was changed to M22. Production of that round ended late in 1945. The T74 round was an M22 round tested with different powder , but never went into full-scale production. The length of time that the T-44 was produced vs. the other rounds may account for its more common availability.

 

Here's an interesting box label that was altered at the plant during the nomenclature change-over.

I just happen to have one of those training Remington Model 11 shotguns , it has the tapped and threaded holes on the front and back of the receiver. I’ll post pics

Here it is....

Other side

SP thanks for the info and kwc271 for posting your shotgun

Thanks for the additional information. I once had a wood crate full of the frangibles but all are gone except for a 20 rd. box and a single specimen. Thanks for the shotgun photos.

illinigander

No problem, I wish I had the mount for it.