Hey guys,

 

Just making this to learn the basics between Bronze oak leaf clusters and Silver oak leaf cluster....

Hey guys,

 

Just making this to learn the basics between Bronze oak leaf clusters and Silver oak leaf cluster....

 

Hi,

 

The BRONZE OAK LEAF CLUSTER (OLC) is worn for the second and subsequent awards of the same medal (usually Army, Air Force, and Defense awards) to a maximum of four.

 

The SILVER OAK LEAF CLUSTER is worn in the same manner as the Bronze Oak Leaf Cluster in lieu of 5 awards.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Dan.

1 silver OLC=5 bronze OLC's

 

-Ski

Just playing around with the camera, thought I would show some macro photos of clusters. I really hadn't looked too carefully at the designs before. These are WWII vintage:

Bronze leaf on the same Air Medal ribbon:

A bronze oak leaf on a more recent ribbon. Does anyone know when the design changed?

In the past I have seen some posts asking about how to tell a WWII vintage Oak Leaf from one of more current manufacture, maybe these photos will help for comparison value. I came across 2 boxes of the small size Silver Oakleaf clusters, both boxes are dated 1943.

 

After looking them over and comparing them to some that I knew were of recent manufacture about the only real difference I saw was that the 1943 ones have 2 brass pins attached to the back. The newer ones have a wire that is much thinner and longer than the WWII ones. But, that dosen't help tell the age if it's attached to a ribbon already. The only other thing I noticed was that the 1943 ones look a lot better made, the casting is sharper and more defined.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Dennis

 

 

 

This is one from the box:

 

Each Oak Leaf Cluster was in an individual glassine bag:

 

The 1943 one is on the left, the other 2 are of more recent manufacture, 80s, 90s:

(You can see  how much better looking the sculpting is when compared to the other 2. I am sure there are lots of other types out there but at least now we know what one type of 1943 oak leaf cluster looks like.)

 

The 1943 one is on the left. Notice that it has 2 brass pins with heads. The current manufactured ones have the bent wire and the bent wire recessed in to the cluster:

What timing...I have a Purple Heart ribbon with two holes in it and I was going to ask what OLC would be appropriate. Thank you for the photos!

 

I've also found that any modern device has a dull copper appearance and fake tarnish, and they break when trying to puncture the ribbon. Cheap cheap cheap.

 

Rob

What timing...I have a Purple Heart ribbon with two holes in it and I was going to ask what OLC would be appropriate. Thank you for the photos!

 

I've also found that any modern device has a dull copper appearance and fake tarnish, and they break when trying to puncture the ribbon. Cheap cheap cheap.

 

Rob

 

Yes the new ones are very cheap, my supply sergeant hates me because i went though 20 OLC trying to put them on my uniform for the christmas ball we had!

 

Also Old Marine, are any for sale? If so PM me

That was a great find! Jealous. Anyway, the 1943's are definitely higher quality, looking more sturdy and better defined. I would much prefer those to the cheap current stuff made today. Thanks for showing, too neat!

G

WW2 Bronze Star with multiple oak leaf clusters.

Is there regulation on how they would be placed on the ribbon?

I'm guessing horizontal across the ribbon, as I have seen valor and an oak leaf cluster placed that way.

Does that sound right?

 

Thanks,

Tony

Bronze and Silver Oak Leaf Clusters are common devices placed on many United States military awards and decorations signifying multiple bestowals of a particular award. The number of oak leaf clusters indicates the second and subsequent awards of the decoration. One single oak leaf cluster, for example, is attached to the designated award and denotes a second award of that particular decoration. Service members do not wear more than one service ribbon on their ribbon rack even when they have received the award more than once. Instead, multiple awards are shown by attaching the oak leaves to the ribbon. One single oak leaf denotes the second award of that particular decoration. Two oak leaves denotes three awards. Four denote five awards. When the sixth award of a specific decoration is bestowed on the individual, a single “silver” bronze oak leaf is placed on the ribbon (as opposed to five bronze oak leaves). Oak leaves are most commonly employed by the U.S. Army and U.S. Air Force to denote multiple awards. The U.S. Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard typically employ Gold and Silver Stars to signify multiple awards. Specific use of these devices, however, vary between services.

Hi I was was wondering if this is the correct order for a ww2 rack i have? I'm using it for ww2 reenactment. Thank u!

 

Cant upload it file size is sooooo small!

 

Top rack 2 bars

Left side air medal 5 bronze oak leaf clusters right side army good conduct

Bottom rack 3 ribbons

Left side american campaign medal, center euro afro me 3 bronze stars right side croix de guerre w attachment

Croix de guerre being a foreign decoration will go at the far left of the bottom row. Air medal with 5 bronze oak leafs would denote 6 awards. It should be 1 silver oak leaf clusters.

Order is correct as you described it. bakchos215 is using the wearer’s left while you are using the viewer’s perspective.

Here you go!

Croix de Guerre should have a palm or star, not the "twig".

What type of AAF pilot are you re-enacting because Air Medal is overdone?

 

There are too many bronze oak leaf clusters, especially given the number service stars on the EAME Medal....

 

One or two would be more realistic.

 

Something else to consider, if the pilot had earned a personal Croix de Guere, the corresponding U.S. decoration might have been a DFC at the very least.

in regards the air medal its not uncommon to see 5 bronze clusters on a bar or 1 silver one

Again, my point exactly. Note the corresponding campaign stars and DFCs on the fine examples above.

 

While an Air Medal can be awarded for an act of heroism, award (especially in current practice) is based on the number of hours or sorties flown.

 

An Air Medal with five oak leaf clusters means six awards of the medal. In WW II, I believe the medal was awarded for every five combat sorties or 100 non-combat sorties. Six awards would mean 30 combat missions or six hundred non-combat sorties. An individual who survived 30 combat sorties most certainly would be in line for other decorations and may have been entitled to more service stars.

 

That's why I asked what type of pilot was being illustrated here. I'm just trying to help make the re-enactment seem a little more realistic.

Regardless, the ribbon shouldn't have five devices on it. It should have one silver OLC instead of five bronze ones.

Regardless, the ribbon shouldn't have five devices on it. It should have one silver OLC instead of five bronze ones.

True -- at least by today's standards. I'm not sure about WW II. My uncle's EAME Medal/Ribbon had six service stars. so I would have to research the regs from that era.

 

As a side note, the most impressive Air Medal I ever saw was an Air Force Lt. Col. in the Alaskan Air Command who flew F-105s and F-4s in Vietnam and was a pilot in Korea. He had 21 Air Medals. The presentation medal for the last award had four silver devices.

Again, my point exactly. Note the corresponding campaign stars and DFCs on the fine examples above.

 

While an Air Medal can be awarded for an act of heroism, award (especially in current practice) is based on the number of hours or sorties flown.

 

An Air Medal with five oak leaf clusters means six awards of the medal. In WW II, I believe the medal was awarded for every five combat sorties or 100 non-combat sorties. Six awards would mean 30 combat missions or six hundred non-combat sorties. An individual who survived 30 combat sorties most certainly would be in line for other decorations and may have been entitled to more service stars.

 

That's why I asked what type of pilot was being illustrated here. I'm just trying to help make the re-enactment seem a little more realistic.

 

For the 8th and 9th AF, it was one AM for every five missions and a DFC for the 30th mission. Thus, if someone survived all of their missions in theater, they would have (or should have, at least) five AMs (ribbon and four olc) and one DFC.

 

Thus, if you see a uniform that has more than four olc on the AM and one or more olc on the DFC, it generally means that at least one of those awards was for a specific event (at least my rule of thumb when looking at a uniform to potentially add to my collection when I was collecting these...)

I would offer a slight variation to what Dave put above. In at least one bomb group (448th) Air Medals were awarded every sixth mission rather than five as seen in other instances.

 

For much of the war, an airman would earn four Air Medals (ribbon with 3 OLCs) and receive a DFC for completing their tour. However, in at least one bomb group (448th again) the DFC was eliminated as an 'end of tour' award in many cases, and many airmen left with an Air Medal and 4 OLCs. Again, the above reflects research into one bomb group.

 

The Silver campaign star and OLCs did not come out until late 1944/early 1945, so campaign ribbons and decorations with 5 or more devices is not out of line for WWII awards.

 

Kyle

BUMP

 

Here's more on the Bay, nice close up of devices showing Brass pin heads.  Seller has others as WWII, but those look like the modern ones.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/323853171456?hash=item4b67273b00:g:5m8AAOSwtjRdIoqb