I found this at a shop today. The guy is asking $350. I think its awesome. I know nothing about these though. What are your thoughts? Worth the $350? What is the resell value on this if I decide not to keep it? Does it look like original parts to you? it is pretty heavy. Thanks for your thoughts!

 

I would buy it, but I have been wanting to find one for our museum.

I think that is an Israeli parts kit.

 

Chris

I think that is an Israeli parts kit.

 

Chris

 

Do you have reference to an Israeli? I didnt notice any US marking ons it. Thanks!

I believe the Israeli ones were marked 7.62. I built one up years ago (demil) and it was also an Israeli kit. It was a lot of fun!!

 

Chris

in the post ww11 period,through the 50's the us sold hundreds of us weapons to isreal.they were refurbished and rechambered for the 7.62x51 round.the reason you see no us markings is in a dummy build the right side plate is replaced where the main markings were,most of these functional weapons still retain the original us markings.these played a role in the 67 and some in the 73 wars.the flash hider is probably a 100.00 piece,i'd buy it in a heart beat.............even though the trigger is missing..............dave

It is Isreali. It seems to be missing some original pieces while the parts in the pictures also seem to be "modified". Parts kits used to go for $700 just a few years ago, and have now doubled since then. However, looking at the pics, it appears the internals may all be missing, and it looks like although the dummy side plate is just held in with allen head screws, the pistol grip plate appears to be welded in. In the end, it looks like the sum of the parts in the pictures might add up to the asking price, but if you wanted to rebuild this into an operating semiauto (legal), it might not be the best batch of parts to start with. I will add pics if you want to compare.

 

I would assume the following is missing:

Lock Frame Group

Barrel Extension group

Bolt Group

Front sight group

Modified rear plate

Top latch

Awesome info everyone! So at $350, would that be considered a steal? I think it would look good on a coffee table haha

i wouldn't say a steal but worth it in parts and a decent display piece.as said the internals are missing as is the trigger........maybe you could offer 275.00..........who knows.............dave

Sarco offers many parts for these guys. If you wanted, check out the website and try to add up the parts you have in the dummy gun to see if you feel comfortable. That being said, chances of finding a parts gun for a cheap price is unlikley. If you wanted one of these, go for it.

at a recent show a friend had 2 new old stock parked hiders at 150.00 ea. and both sold.

I have never been on the lookout for anything like this but when I stumbled upon it, I thought it was really cool. I may pass.

This is definitely an Izzy 1919a4 kit with A6 flash hider. does not have the top. Latch and obviously interal parts are missing . The problem is is it legal. To be a non-gun, the right side plate needs to be much thinker as not to allow insertion of standard width interna parts. I believe it is support to be 1/2" thick. The semi autos have a denial island. The gun looks l Iike it has a standard right side plate thickness.

 

I did notice the back plate is welded closed not sowing insertion of interal parts. Not sure if this is sufficient to cal it a non-gun. My guess is probably not although it does show intent of non use.

 

I would recommend caution in purchasing this gun unless you are confident it does not violate ATF NFA rules. If it does, it could cost a whole bunch more than $350 in legal costs.

 

Regarding vaue of parts, probably worth it especially for display. iMO not worth making into a real gun. Trunnion/shroud/barrel/top cover/ left side plate are worth the price being asked.

 

Just a word of caution but not to be a definitive declaration.

 

junking

In my opinion this is one of those things that are "too good to be true". By which I mean stay away. That's just my opinion.

The right plate is the controlled part under ATF regulations. The right plate is virtually complete and is assembled and fixed to the top plate, bottom plate and trunnion, completing the receiver box. A complete receiver box in this condition constitutes an unregistered MG, end of story.

The right plate on this gun is missing both the cartridge extractor lifter and the cartridge stop, both of which would be riveted to the inside of the right plate. The large cross pins through the trunnion and distance pieces for the front pintle mount are missing. These parts are easily installed. The threaded breech end of a 1919a4 barrel appears to be protruding from the trunnion. It is clear that a few parts, completion of a few minor details and small parts, assembly of bolt with barrel extension and trigger frame would complete this gun into a functional machine gun.

In its present condition it is an unregistered machine gun, thus contraband and a serious legal liability.

DO NOT BUY IT!

I think the rt side plate is a dummy plate with no internal machining...which would make this a demilled MG...and the back plate is welded to the box, preventing disassembly...no internal parts...bolt is bolted to side plate..based on my experience with the ATF.. I believe they would consider this a demilled MG...a paper weight..I would have bought it if I needed another one...

 

 

 

My FN30 was inspected and passed by the ATF..it had all internals but the rt plate was flat steel plate, which I switched to aluminum, later on...

 

below is an internally machined side plate

In response to "phantomfixer", the pic of the inside of the receiver shows no evidence of a denial island preventing assembly of original, correct full auto internals. The right sideplate is slightly thicker than a standard sideplate, but the internal width of the receiver is correct for a standard 1919A4, evident from the symmetry of the trunnion. The extra width on the outside of the plate doesn't affect anything on the inside of the box the extra thickness can be milled to fit the topcover if needed. The receiver box is complete and unregistered, which is a basic violation of longstanding ATF regulations, period. There is little chance that this gun might be subjected to scrutiny by any authority that has the power to make life difficult for the owner, but the receiver is contraband in its present configuration. Ownership of this gun is entirely dependent on the owner's level of acceptance of legal liability.

My full time business is as a firearms manufacturer and MG manufacturer, FFL07/SOTII, and I have been repairing, building, buying and selling MGs for many, many years. I have built many BMGs, semi-auto and full-auto, as well as many, many other types of live, NFA controlled MGs. I have variances from ATF going back to the early 1990s for using registered BMG, Maxim and Vickers sideplates to build other models in the families of these types of MGs as live, registered models using available kits. My familiarity with these guns and ATF goes back to 1968 and with MGs to the middle 1950s. Yes, I am paranoid of ATF, and their disfunctional administration and know of plenty of reasons to be so.

Without seeing this A4, but only assessing it from the pics, it appears to me that it's configuration is clearly as a fully complete receiver box and under the ATF regs starting with the GCA of 1968, a complete MG receiver must be registered with ATF for private possession. Possession of this A4 is dependent on the owner's level of acceptance of risk. There is no exemption for any reason if ATF wants to force the issue. Your experience noted above is unique to you and certainly does not represent the universe of ATF's potential behavior in any way. I stress that this receiver is a serious legal liability for the simple reason that an owner never knows who is looking and who might feel threatened by seeing a "gun" and calling the cops. I know of quite a few examples of serious legal consequences from just that scenario. We now live in a world of irrational fear of guns, along with rampant ignorance of firearms types and laws and a willingness on the part of law enforcement and ATF to make "examples". I am approached by owners with unregistered vintage MGs many times a year and that is my message to them when they say they don't think having it is a problem. Part of my business is advising people about how to handle real MGs that are unregistered, and there are ways to do it. Each person must decide what is their tolerance for risk, but when it comes to ATF and MGs, my advice is to take no risk at all. FWIW

BMG I stand corrected...and if the ATF wanted to they could make a case against this, and yes I was speaking on my limited dealings with the ATF...I walked away from my "inspection" with the feeling that as long as the MG was demilled, and not able to be made to fire "readily", then they, the ATF would satisfied....

 

I would imagine that if the MG was used during the commission of a felony, that would change the scenario....

 

as far as irrational fear in the present times...I had my FN 30 mounted on my jeep, as it has been for years, being driven around my community, while stopped at a yard sale, a state cruiser pulled up behind the parked jeep, with the machine gun....the SP had gotten a call "some nut" was driving up and down Rt 8 with a loaded MG....long story short the young trooper just started laughing as he was telling of the 911 call....and as he saw what the "loaded" MG was ...so I guess that makes it my second inspection by legal authorities....