I received this scabbard with an M7 bayo from USRO.

 

I've never received that looks like this with the rather dark metal.

 

Any info would be appreciated

Thank You

Chas

The metal frog is from a known U.S. contractor. Hard to say about the rest of it without seeing more. The black paint suggests that at best it's a re-paint. May have been done while in the Government supply chain or later.

To me, something doesn't look right with the PWH. It is the wide version of the P W H, but they look like they are not lined up and are weakly stamped. Also, the center of the "M" comes too far toward the base line than it should. Just a few thoughts.

Marv

From Gary's CD, for comparison.

 

 

In Gary's CD and the PWH's I have, all have an "M" with the center legs meeting about half way down.

Not sure about this, but have seen a few around lately, I think they are repros. Never saw them until recently. Just a guess. SKIP

Thanks for the info !! It doesn't look right or feel right to me either. It feels and looks lighter and smoother than any M8 scabbard I've had or saw. Almost like plastic. I will try and get another pic tonight when I get home from work.

Can you see any fiber around the cut notches? in most cases the repros are solid plastic and don't have the underlayment fiber showing as do the originals.

I would guess reproduction, but wouldn't say for sure without more information. I have not seen a PWH reproduction throat advertised, but I would not be surprised either.

 

Just for those who are not aware, the solid plastic bodies are being sold as replacements, so you might find a "new" body inserted in an original throat assembly. Some of the reproduction bodies even have the VP logo molded into them.

 

As mentioned, most of the repros are solid plastic and a close look around the cuts will often show that.

 

 

 

I've taken a pic of each side of the scabbard. I do not see anything that looks like fibers where the throat connects to the body. You can also see on one of the pics that the paint is a little worn and exposing what looks to be a plastic body. The bottom pic is showing it beside an M8A1 I received from the CMP.

The two bodies do look a little different. Here's a comparison of a injection molded body beside a known good sheath.

 

It definetly looks like the repo. There are no fibers. Are there USGI M8A1 scabbards that have that dark of a throat ?

Hi. That scabbard does look off to me. Have not seen one with a throat that dark and as mentioned the PWH stamp looks odd and the plastic looking body. How does the hanger look compared to a known original? Didn't know these M8A1's were being reproduced. Thought they were still fairly common. Does it have the metal liner around the tie hole?

Hi. That scabbard does look off to me. Have not seen one with a throat that dark and as mentioned the PWH stamp looks odd and the plastic looking body. How does the hanger look compared to a known original? Didn't know these M8A1's were being reproduced. Thought they were still fairly common. Does it have the metal liner around the tie hole?

It is definetly off. It has grommets in the tie down holes and is not the standard for post 1956 production. This was obtained from an M7 I purchased from USRO. I have another scabbard similar to this one somewhere. I'm going to try and find it and take a few pics to compare it to this one.

 

It is amazing how someone can find the smallest of intricacies between an original and non. Obviously there were a few things that stood out but things that I would never even thought to look for. Thank You Gary you are the professional of professionals in edged weapons !! I will look for that other scabbard today.

 

Thank you all for the info. Have a Very Merry Christmas.

TY Chas

Chas was kind enough to allow me to have one of the scabbards for my reference collection. I do appreciate the opportunity to examine these odd items carefully. I can say that it is definitely more "modern" made, probably for the commercial market, but it is not impossible that it was made by some company for sale to a non-US military customer.

I have attached a couple of photos. In the first one, the top is a standard PWH (#1), the middle is an odd one I have had for several years (#2) and the bottom is the one under discussion. (#3).

Although #2 and #3 share some similarities, they are not identical. Some of the differences from the standard are:

1. The wire used in the double hook is slightly thinner.

2. The tips of the handle retaining strap are slightly more "Square" and are made of a metal (possibly aluminum) rather than brass.

3. The retaining strap snap fasteners are made of a metal other than brass, again possibly an aluminum alloy or may be nickeled.

4. The strap fasteners are made by companies that I have not found on regular issue scabbards. Most issue PWH used either RAU (most common) or DOT snaps. # 2 has THREE BELLS (inside the female fastener) and #3 has KOH-I-NOOR (on the male fastener). I have found no information on any company using THREE BELLS as a brand name.

See photo 3.

5. The hanger material on 2 and 3 is noticeably "softer" than is found on normal contract pieces. The weave is looser and seems to be slightly thinner.

6. The colors are different on all three hangers. 2 is much lighter and 3 is somewhat lighter than standard.

7. The hanger on #3 is distinctly wider than on 1 and 2. US standard is 1.50" +/- and #3 is about 1.75".

8. The rivets holding the hanger strap to the body on #3 are domed and hollow backed. US standard is flat head and solid back.

9. The throat markings on 1 and 2 are very similar - #2 may actually be an original PWH throat. The markings on #3 are similar to the wide PWH except the center V of the M in M8A1 comes down further than the issue version. (Photo 2)

10. The metal finish on 1 and 2 appear to be standard zinc Parkerizing. #3 is an unknown smoother and darker finish.

11. The bodies on 1 and 2 are both standard appearing cotton duck reinforced plastic, while 3 is smooth injection molded plastic. The smooth plastic is found on most of the later European (mostly German) production.

12. The tips of #2 and #3 have grommets in the tie down hole. The metal reinforcement tip was standard for all production post 1956.

 

Thank you Gary for the detailed comparison. I'm curious to know what M7 bayonet was paired with the scabbard(maker, backcut/runout). If it's a matching pair that could possibly help with a production timeline and issue versus commercial. Merry Christmas everyone!!

The scabbard in question came with a nice Ontario bayonet. I'm not sure of the runout but I will check it and send some pics of it. I'll be out of town today. I also had another scabbard (M8A1) that resembles the one I sent Gary that also came from USRO. I emailed Gary some pics of that one. It had a nice BOC M7 with it.

 

Have a Merry and Safe Christmas

Chas

The scabbard in question came with a nice Ontario bayonet. I'm not sure of the runout but I will check it and send some pics of it. I'll be out of town today. I also had another scabbard (M8A1) that resembles the one I sent Gary that also came from USRO. I emailed Gary some pics of that one. It had a nice BOC M7 with it.

 

Have a Merry and Safe Christmas

Chas

 

Thank you. From what I've read BOC supplied/delivered a large number of bayonets under contract by the late sixties and Ontario had a contract in the late eighties so that's quite a difference. I got an early Christmas present of a BOC found locally with the 90 degree back cut. It came with a standard PWH M8A1(same as the first in Gary's photos). I've seen the Ontario's around but they had the M10 scabbard. I think there's a good possibility USRO are pairing them up either with commercial or repro scabbards.