Hello,

I was hoping to get some advice on a pair of M1902 dress swords I am being offered for sale. I am not very knowledgeable on this subject, so maybe someone could tell me approximately when these swords were made and what is a fair price. The condition seems very good to excellent from the photos I have. The first one is marked Trade Defender Mark N S Meyers

The second is made by gemsco. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Vic

Sorry for any confusion, I mixed up the photos. This goes with the Gemsco photo

Other pic

You have two M1902s that are basically the same. Made by Karl Eickhorn, Solingen. N.S. Meyer, Gemsco and many others were importers and distributors. Note that the have then same etching pattern.The Meyer trademark dates it to the 19590's The Gemsco is of a similar vintage.

I agree the Meyer is 1950s, but I think the Gemsco is late 1960s. I had a saber with that exact Gemsco etching that had been presented in 1968.

That's great, thanks for the help. If I am able to purchase these, they would go great with some Cold War era dress uniforms I have. What would be a fair price to offer on these?

I have not seen enough to judge the condition. But $75 to $150 ea. is reasonable. They are very common. Most are used by military schools.

Sorry, I don't have many photos, but I was told the condition on both was very good to excellent. But thanks for the reference points. Now at least I have a ball park figure to work with.

I agree the Meyer is 1950s, but I think the Gemsco is late 1960s. I had a saber with that exact Gemsco etching that had been presented in 1968.

I know nothing about these swords but if the Gemsco was made in the 60's shouldn't it be marked W. Germany? Just asking.

Ronnie

As a rough rule; before 1960, just 'Germany', after 'West Germany'. I do not know why.

Thanks Tim.

You may find these links interesting. www.swordforum.com is is mostly about swords and related

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?107637-US-Model-1902-unusual-variations&highlight=us+military+schools

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?107950-Swords-amp-Sabers-US-Military-Schools-Academies-and-Inistitutes&highlight=us+military+schools

Are either of then engraved with a name on the blade that also affect value?? If they are not since they are more resent production i would say your looking right around $75 bucks a piece.

Personalization of a sword does not help the value. It is the equivalent of painting your name on a cherry 57' Chevy. However if the name can be proven to be that of a significant historical figure then you have something.

Personalization of a sword does not help the value. It is the equivalent of painting your name on a cherry 57' Chevy. However if the name can be proven to be that of a significant historical figure then you have something.

I am going to say i differ in opinion on this a bit, named swords in my experience with them generally go for more money because there is a chance of research. If you just want a sword to stick on the wall then of course you want an unnamed one. The engraving on these is generally very nicely done and i have seen it make a 20-30 dollar difference in past sales. Your reference isn't really correct i mean painting on a car would ruin its value, these swords were meant to be engraved they all have a section for it the engraving is generally professionally done and adds a good bit more history. I know i can speak for a number of members by saying a lot of us would rather have an engraved blade any day.

Personalization of a sword does not help the value. It is the equivalent of painting your name on a cherry 57' Chevy.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/161517-perhaps-the-rarest-m1902-variant-saber-of-ltc-ursa-diller/

Although I do not collect swords (I do have a 1902 that was given as a graduation present from ROTC by his parents in 1918, but unfortunately it is not engraved) I would certainly appreciate a named sword. Any time I can get something that has a possibility of learning some history, I am interested.

Swords with names etched or engraved on them are quite different from identified swords. While a random name engraved on a sword has the potential to be researched it is still a shot in the dark in most instances. Clearly a sword that belonged to a General Officer, or a famous person, is worth more than one without a name or belonging to an obscure 2nd Lieutenant. Value is in the eye of the beholder but I have always advocated buying the object and not the story. I don't pay extra for an un-researched sword with someone's name simply associated with it.

Unfortunately I didn't get a photo of the whole blade to see if they were named. I gave the seller the price range of what was mentioned here on the forum, and I think he got offended, thinking i was low balling him. So I guess I will have to wait for another opportunity to come along. But I have to thank all those who responded, because I have a lot more knowledge about them now.

If you want the post 1950 02 here are some things to look for:

Simple flanged scabbard throat (picture below) and knuckle bow without ridge.

Stick with the German made ie. Eickhorn and Horster. Ignore the proof star and look at the first part of the etching. It is the only thing consistent with these makers. The top picture has two wavy lines which makes it an Eickhorn. The parallel lines with the decoration is a Horster.

Note, these pattern are used on other foreign brands.

All German made N.S. Meyers post 1950 swords are Eickhorns. Most post 1950 M1902s are marked with an importer/distributor name, such as Gemsco, Zubco etc.

The WKC brand is a bit complicated to explain here.

The last photos are obscene pictures of my past collection now in my data base.

WOW! That is great, thanks for the info. Now I have a lot more knowledge about these than before I started this post. Thanks

Vic