November 19, 201510 yr #26 There was no organization called the United States Revenue Service that had ships, only the United States Revenue CUTTER Service. USRCS. There is however the United States Internal Revenue Service. We assume the term "The Revenue Service" was an informal name used at the time for the US Revenue Cutter Service. Wharf
November 19, 201510 yr #27 I have no real input other than to say, what an interesting thread! Thanks for everyone's input to try to sort out some accurate information! That is the great thing about this forum! BKW absolutely. the scholarly discussion of these topics is top! -Brian
November 19, 201510 yr #28 There was no organization called the United States Revenue Service that had ships, only the United States Revenue CUTTER Service. USRCS. There is however the United States Internal Revenue Service. We assume the term "The Revenue Service" was an informal name used at the time for the US Revenue Cutter Service. Wharf Wharf, I would have said the same thing until Dave brought this Sampson Medal into the discussion. If you dig around online, you will start see that the "Revenue Service" was sometimes used at about the same time. I'd never noticed this before....I think it is pretty neat...but it does open the door for the need for more research to really nail this down.
November 19, 201510 yr #29 If you Bing or Google " United States Revenue Service " you will find there was no US Dept. with this name. Only US Revenue Cutter Service. The top bar is technically incorrect. We assume the term "Revenue Service" was a common unofficial term for the USRCS at the time. We need to find a cap tally that has USRS to a known Revenue Cutter. Even then, it would be a technical error of the time. It could be possible the RS is Reserve Ship. However, one would think it would have been US Naval Reserve Ship. Most likely Receiving Ship/Station. Wharf
November 19, 201510 yr #30 There was another lot in the same auction with 3 Red Box USN Silver Stars in it too, Went for 1800. Kurt
November 19, 201510 yr #31 There was another lot in the same auction with 3 Red Box USN Silver Stars in it too, Went for 1800. Kurt Plus 20% Buyers premium. ..
November 19, 201510 yr #32 Plus 20% Buyers premium. .. Very True. The money to be made on that lot will be all the stuff that was in the box that came with the SS's. Kurt
November 19, 201510 yr #33 If you Bing or Google " United States Revenue Service " you will find there was no US Dept. with this name. Only US Revenue Cutter Service. The top bar is technically incorrect. We assume the term "Revenue Service" was a common unofficial term for the USRCS at the time. We need to find a cap tally that has USRS to a known Revenue Cutter. Even then, it would be a technical error of the time. It could be possible the RS is Reserve Ship. However, one would think it would have been US Naval Reserve Ship. Most likely Receiving Ship/Station. Wharf I don't think a RS would ever be a cutter...that would be a RC. Whether the Windom Sampson Medal Bar is correct, incorrect, or an out right error is a nut that still needs to be cracked. The "S" is not going to be a Station, because those were not ships, but rather places. Consider this wording as off the top of my head, but the Station tallies say something close to U.S. Naval Receiving Station, Boston....sometimes with, and sometimes without the place name. I agree, Reserve Ship would likely only be a Navy ship. This one is needs more research, because Reserve Ship was used in the roughly 1870's to 1890's, but I am not sure that designation ended up on cap tallies...but I believe so...though only in that relatively early period....and maybe even then, only a small part of it. That all said, now that your screws are spinning, what do you think about the USFS designation?
November 20, 201510 yr #35 they are us navy early Us Navy Hospital ships, GOOGLE us navy receiving ships tell all you need to know also asked John Stacey how knows more then most. Happy thanks Giving you all .
November 20, 201510 yr #37 Well, here we go...a cap tally, in wear, with USRS... from the following website: http://lighthouseantiques.net/Revenue%20Cutter%20Serv.htm
November 20, 201510 yr #38 No photo, but from the Coast Guard official history of early uniforms: http://www.uscg.mil/history/docs/usrcsuniforms1908.pdf
November 20, 201510 yr #40 Well done Dave. US Revenue STEAMER. Wharf Thank you sir! And Revenue Service Steamer definitely makes sense! I think a lot of smart people (including me) just learned something new!!
November 20, 201510 yr #41 That is most excellent work Dave! Revenue Steamer makes perfect sense...once you know it! But that only knocks out the Windom "mystery"... And, there is the USFS....
November 20, 201510 yr #42 Thank you sir! And Revenue Service Steamer definitely makes sense! I think a lot of smart people (including me) just learned something new!! Thank you very much, it's indeed fun to learn. Power of the forum. Got me thinking. I have an original copy of the June, 1889 US Merchant Vessel List. It also lists all vessels of the US Revenue Marine. It lists 37 Revenue vessels, most steam propeller with a few steam side-wheel and small steam Launches. Like today, we assume they needed to be fast. In addition, most of the vessels had from one to four guns ! Wharf
November 20, 201510 yr #43 Had to look up the Windom, because I did not remember seeing the "Steamer" designation anywhere. Did not get too exhaustive, but it seemed to be called a Cutter...though one has to assume it wasn't always termed that. Here is a nice dated photo:
November 20, 201510 yr Author #45 Faaaaaaaaantastic work fellas!! Man this is super! The detective work is top notch. Dave I cant tell you how long I looked for a picture!
November 20, 201510 yr Author #46 Very True. The money to be made on that lot will be all the stuff that was in the box that came with the SS's. Kurt Very true - had a bid on that one of $600 - obviously didnt work LOL! That buyers premium is a killer.....
November 20, 201510 yr #47 Wharf, was USFS listed in your US Merchant Vessel List? Grump, The only thing close was the US Fish Commission. They had 3 vessels, two Steamers and a Schooner. Maybe ? Wharf
November 20, 201510 yr #48 Thanks Wharf, its got to be either a Fish Steamer....which sounds kind of heathy....or the Forest Service guys stationed at the Washington State Capital....wonder if those guys wore green flat hats? Dave might know.....
November 20, 201510 yr #49 Thanks Wharf, its got to be either a Fish Steamer....which sounds kind of heathy....or the Forest Service guys stationed at the Washington State Capital....wonder if those guys wore green flat hats? Dave might know..... Gotta be US Flag Ship Olympia. Wharf
November 20, 201510 yr #50 Gotta be US Flag Ship Olympia. Wharf I was hoping to lead you to that.... Interestingly, Fighting Ship also sneaks in as well... There is another one of these....USCS....the CS means Coal Ship... Have never seen the CS used on cap tallies, but the designation is "floating" out there with Reserve Ship and Fighting Ship.... These are designations that show up sometimes in old Naval correspondence and ship's letterheads, but may or may not have been actually used on cap tallies...though as you mentioned before, the chance of anomalies, something unofficial, or plain errors can also come into play...especially with something as easy to make as a cap ribbon. I wish I had a few things closer at had...somewhere I have a copy of a letterhead that uses and spells out US Fighting Ship...it is from about 1900, but I can't recall the ship. Anyway, I have not really dug into these designations in a long time, so some of the answers might be more readily available now. I'll say this, it has been fun to think about this again...or at least try and think about this!
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