Just a question, has anyone ever seen a second type scabbard with a 1906 date? It just seems odd that RIA would move the brass drain grommet from the side to the tip in 1906, and yet this 1906 scabbard is missing it completely. I guess RIA was uncharacteristically sloppy on this one?

 

Sorry would have to pass on it.

Ok, so I have given in to the fact that this set is not what I thought. However I am still not sure the scabbard is 100% repro. I'm thinking a possible restoration?? I did a "burn test" on some fibers of the stitching holding the leather together. It melted much like Nylon. I am wondering if by the blade being cleaned, the grips having "notches" put in them, and the new leather, if this wasnt professionally "cleaned up" or restored. Thoughts??

It could be someone's attempt to clean it up. When I see the photos it looks like someone might have replaced the leather on the scabbard, but without examining it I can't be 100% certain on that. If they did, then they at least did a pretty nice job. So many of the scabbards have dry rotted/deteriorated leather that it would make sense if it had been restored at some point. The unusual markings on the scabbard are definitely atypical. I don't think the scabbard is a reproduction, just that there is a good chance it was restored. The blade doesn't bother me all that much. Given the long service life of the M1905 bayonet they accumulated wear, and once in civilian hands many were 'prettied' up by a well meaning owner. The grips are strange, they appear real but the grooves are substantially deeper than any I have seen from the arsenal. Someone altered them, possibly for cosmetic reasons and possibly to aid in keeping a grip. Could the grips have been altered in service? It's not impossible but there isn't anything to suggest it was.

 

If you are happy with it, and you understand the concerns then that is all that counts. It just isn't unissued and some of the components may have been restored. But the bayonet is real and so is the scabbard.

 

RC

I have seen products in the "Craft" industry that promote rust for the purpose of giving metal parts a patina. It would not be difficult at all to give the throat metal a speckled rust look.

This is a long throat, 1906 dated scabbard and bayonet. Drain hole is 1/2" up from tip, on the back. This is the same configuration as the short throat 1906 scabbards. My 1907 and later dated scabbards have the drain hole on the very bottom.

No one seems to know what the hell this is with 100% certainty. I had someone who used to work at At The Front look at it, and he said it looks good, then others say its been recovered. Others insist its a reproduction. I have 2 options. I can either 1) return it for a full refund of $500 or 2) keep it and the seller will refund me $200. I cant make up my mind.

Jbassmaster,

 

I think if you look at most of the opinions here they are suggesting you return it if you are uncomfortable with it.

 

Good luck with your decision,

RC

If it were I, I would opt for a full refund. I think many of the posters here have been sympathetically kind to your situation without actually saying that it is a modern reproduction. The lack of a drain hole is indicative of current repo scabbards. I bought 2 modified M1905 scabbards just so I had a frame of reference for things that popped up on auctions sites. Among other very subtle differences, both do not have a drain hole. The original scabbards have drain holes and bushings.

 

The date stamp on your scabbard is, in my opinion, not a government stamp. I personally don't believe that an inspector forgot to stamp his initials. Nor do I believe that QC passed this scabbard with all the already listed questionable anomalies and without an inspector's initials.

 

The anomaly you picture where the leather meets the metal throat is also something not indicative of Springfield Armory or Rock Island Armory. Keep in mind, these facilities did superb work. They did NOT put out any sub standard products or products that did not conform to specifications.

 

If it will make you feel any better I can tell a story or two about some knives I have bought over the years and one "Star" gauged Springfield barrel that put my losses a lot higher than $500. It happens. If the seller with give you back your investment, my advise is take it. Another scabbard will come along.

 

My two cents.

 

RD

Frank Trzaska posted a couple of photos on his website awhile back that shows the Model 1905 scabbard with the throat removed - possibly to be converted to the Model 1905 (Modified).

 

 

Note that the leather goes all the way up with no real transition where it entered the metal throat other than the seam ending. The one being discussed looks like there is a line of transition.

 

My comments / thoughts are:

 

The blade has been polished / buffed. Not real bad but noticeable.

 

The grips have had grooves added, much too deep to resemble the correct ridges.

 

The scabbard is at least questionable, from the lack of the drain hole to the odd markings.

 

Do I feel this is a $500 set on today's market? No.

 

Many years ago when I started getting into the collecting field, a wise man told me "If you have to make excuses, sooner or later you will regret getting it". Explanations are OK if you know what was done, by whom and why, but it will still normally lower the value, and you will still want / need a "correct" one.

I returned it for a full refund. Thanks for everyone's opinions and input

It's good to hear this was resolved to your satisfaction.

 

RC

Frank Trzaska posted a couple of photos on his website awhile back that shows the Model 1905 scabbard with the throat removed - possibly to be converted to the Model 1905 (Modified).

 

M1905_Scab_Marks4.JPG

 

Note that the leather goes all the way up with no real transition where it entered the metal throat other than the seam ending. The one being discussed looks like there is a line of transition.

 

Many years ago when I started getting into the collecting field, a wise man told me "If you have to make excuses, sooner or later you will regret getting it". Explanations are OK if you know what was done, by whom and why, but it will still normally lower the value, and you will still want / need a "correct" one.

 

That is an excellent example of what we are talking about! I also noticed the strange 'gap' as though the leather was added after the throat had been applied. Definitely not correct if that is indeed what we saw.

 

And that is a very wise man indeed.

 

RC