Hello, I would like some information on this pocket knife. It looks like the MIL-K type pocket knife, but does not say US or USA anywhere on the knife. The bail says Kingston and the can opener says CanOpener Pat. Pending. Those are the only marks. The screw driver is on the main blade side. It also has brass liners. Could this be an early WWII stainless knife, say 1944, or is it a commercial variety? Also, (I hate to be crass), but what is it worth? Thanks for looking.
Marv

Kingston was a name used in a conglomeration between Imperial and Ulster from 1943 - 1947. You knife's can opener style wasn't used until 1945. After the war, Kingston marketed these knives commercially until they ceased to exist as Kingston, and Imperial and Ulster merged together as one company.

Since the scales aren't marked US, I imagine it's one of the post war commercial knives. You'll probably have to search around to see if you can find a completed sale of a similar one if you want an accurate idea of it's value. I bought one of their 3 blade cattleman knives last summer at a community flea market for around 20 bucks...it had the same handle scales...don't know if that will help much or not.

Check this link out: http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/kin...es/k1947-16.htm

 

Don't let the blade configuration throw you off too bad, they made these different ways, and would also custom assemble them...if I remember correctly. Some were blade etched Kingston, as opposed to the stamped bail markings.

The World War 2 versions made for the Arny in 1944-45 were not normally marked US on the scales. Those made for the Marines were marked U S MARINE CORPS. (Not USMC, those are later commercial made ones)

 

There are some threads on these that might be of interest.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...amp;hl=kingston

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...amp;hl=kingston

The World War 2 versions made for the Arny in 1944-45 were not normally marked US on the scales. Those made for the Marines were marked U S MARINE CORPS. (Not USMC, those are later commercial made ones)

 

There are some threads on these that might be of interest.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...amp;hl=kingston

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...amp;hl=kingston

 

I have a kingston maked USMC was told about 8 years ago about $50. but times are bad also was told the early ones had brass liners later in the war brass got scarce at the start of the war most all makers sold pocket knives to the goverment even seen bone handle ones issued in the first part of the war Don

Gary, good point...I was thinking US, and sometimes US 45, on the bail when I said scales, but you're right, it could also be an earlier version. That would help explain the pending part of patent pending on the can opener. If the blades are crinked, that too would help date it.

I have a kingston maked UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS was told about 8 years ago about $50. but times are bad also was told the early ones had brass liners later in the war brass got scarce at the start of the war most all makers sold pocket knives to the goverment even seen bone handle ones issued in the first part of the war Don

Gary, good point...I was thinking US, and sometimes US 45, on the bail when I said scales, but you're right, it could also be an earlier version. That would help explain the pending part of patent pending on the can opener. If the blades are crinked, that too would help date it.

 

Thanks for the information. In the commercial ad you showed in your first post, the top knife looks similar, except for the blade arrangement, but if the blade arrangement is irrelevent in regard to dating, then my knife could certainly be a 1945-47 commercial product.

Another difference from the picture is that the Can Opener blade does not show the "little tooth" that is present on my knife. Is that significant?

 

Let me ask, were brass liners used in the commercial knives? Were brass liners used in any post war MIL-K 818 knife?

One last question: I'm not sure if it is a mis spelled word, or a slang term, but what is a "crinked" blade? Thanks again.

Marv

Hello again, I just noticed that in the commercial ad, though it was hard to read, it said it was brass lined. So, one question answered.

Marv

Crinked means that the blades are offset, or "bent" so that they will lay in a certain way when the blades are closed in the handle. I've been trying to go on memory for most of what I've written and it might not be the best course, as I've apparently forgotten some details as Gary has pointed out, but I think the knives that have the main (spear) blade and the screwdriver blade crinked in such a way that they lie in between the awl and can opener blades when they are all closed into the handle are the earliest production of the knife. That might, with pat. pending on the can opener and without 45 on the bail, put it in late '44 or early '45.

Are your blades crinked so that they appear like that when closed?

 

I also think the all stainless MIL-K 818s started in 1958, but I'm relying once again on memory so I might be wrong.

On my knife, the can opener and the awl are crinked to fit flat against the scales, . The main blade and the screw driver are not crinked and fit between the can opener and the awl.

 

What would be the proper name of these knives that pre date the MIL-K 818? Thanks again.

Marv

Here's someone else's opinion about my knife. It looks just like mine.

http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=173513

Thanks again.

Marv

Using Michael W. Silvey's book Pocket Knives of the Untied States Military as the reference, pages 108-110 show the WWII made "metal utility knives" as having brass liners. There were marked US, U.S. MARINE CORPS, or not marked.

 

Page 123 shows the post war version as being marked US and having steel liners.

 

So I would say the knife is question is a WWII version.

 

Bill

What would be the proper name of these knives that pre date the MIL-K 818? Thanks again.

Marv

 

Depends on the knife. The USMC knife was standardized as the "Knife, Pocket, Utility".

 

The earliest Army test labeled it the "Knife, Pocket" in 1944.

 

In the 1945 re-test it was called the "Knife, Pocket, General Purpose" and was eventually standardized as such.

 

The first knives developed were for the USMC. With the mark side facing up towards you the can opener would be on the left pivot along with the leather punch. The screwdriver / caplifter and the spear point blade were on the right side.

 

The first Army test knives followed the same pattern and were made as such. The Army Infantry Board retested the knife and requested the blades moved to different positions. The 1945 Army pattern changed the blades to the now common screwdriver / caplifter and leather punch on the left side and the main spear point blade and the can opener on the right side with the knife mark side facing you. The reason for the blades being moved was given that the can opener worked better when cutting square cans in this new configuration.

 

The first Army test knives just like the USMC knives were steel bladed and had Monel grip handles. The first test in 1944 recommended the knives be corrosion resistant. The grips were changed to stainless steel, the pins nickel silver, the blades and springs were to be made from stainless steel as well for the 1945 testing. The Army Infantry Board recommended for adoption the test knives with the stainless parts over the blued steel parts.

 

The bail (clevis, staple, whatever you want to call it) was purposely made large so it would slip over the handle on the meat can and could be dipped in the cleaning solution after eating just like the M1926 eating utensils were cleaned. Originally the Knife, Pocket, General Purpose was to eliminate all other knives in the inventory. The Engineer, Mountain, Electrician, AAC and the M1926 were all to be eliminated with the new design. The Signal Corps refused to adopt the new knife without a locking screwdriver. Pricing in install a lock was discussed but declined by the Quartermaster Dept. The Medical Department refused to adopt it in place of the M1926 cutlery. They stated food could get caught in the folding mechanism and would be too difficult to clean properly, it could cause food poisoning. The Quartermaster Department relented and only eliminated the Mountain knife, the Air Corps knife and the Engineers knife. The TL29 and the M1926 remained in the military inventory along with the new Knife, Pocket, General Purpose.

 

Just rambling...

 

All the best

Frank Trzaska

Depends on the knife. The USMC knife was standardized as the "Knife, Pocket, Utility".

 

The earliest Army test labeled it the "Knife, Pocket" in 1944.

 

In the 1945 re-test it was called the "Knife, Pocket, General Purpose" and was eventually standardized as such.

 

The first knives developed were for the USMC. With the mark side facing up towards you the can opener would be on the left pivot along with the leather punch. The screwdriver / caplifter and the spear point blade were on the right side.

 

The first Army test knives followed the same pattern and were made as such. The Army Infantry Board retested the knife and requested the blades moved to different positions. The 1945 Army pattern changed the blades to the now common screwdriver / caplifter and leather punch on the left side and the main spear point blade and the can opener on the right side with the knife mark side facing you. The reason for the blades being moved was given that the can opener worked better when cutting square cans in this new configuration.

 

The first Army test knives just like the USMC knives were steel bladed and had Monel grip handles. The first test in 1944 recommended the knives be corrosion resistant. The grips were changed to stainless steel, the pins nickel silver, the blades and springs were to be made from stainless steel as well for the 1945 testing. The Army Infantry Board recommended for adoption the test knives with the stainless parts over the blued steel parts.

 

The bail (clevis, staple, whatever you want to call it) was purposely made large so it would slip over the handle on the meat can and could be dipped in the cleaning solution after eating just like the M1926 eating utensils were cleaned. Originally the Knife, Pocket, General Purpose was to eliminate all other knives in the inventory. The Engineer, Mountain, Electrician, AAC and the M1926 were all to be eliminated with the new design. The Signal Corps refused to adopt the new knife without a locking screwdriver. Pricing in install a lock was discussed but declined by the Quartermaster Dept. The Medical Department refused to adopt it in place of the M1926 cutlery. They stated food could get caught in the folding mechanism and would be too difficult to clean properly, it could cause food poisoning. The Quartermaster Department relented and only eliminated the Mountain knife, the Air Corps knife and the Engineers knife. The TL29 and the M1926 remained in the military inventory along with the new Knife, Pocket, General Purpose.

 

Just rambling...

 

All the best

Frank Trzaska

Good info thanks Don

These knives are one of my favorite for collecting. You run across them everywhere from the garage sales to the high end antique shops.

Here's one I picked up some years ago and is a seldom seen variation.

It's marked U.S. on the scale and ULSTER 48 on the bail with Brass liners.

The main blade is marked Stainless / Steel and etched with the old long tailed CRAFTSMAN logo / forged steel.

Also each blade has an S stamped near the pivot point.

I'm not sure how many Ulster made for the US but there must have been over runs for Ulster to have sold them to Sears.

 

Warren in Arizona

 

That's a great little knife. I must admit, I find myself looking at these more and more. I just bought a second one. It's the Kinsgston US Marine Corps variety with the later blade arrangement. I bought it on ebay and I'll have to wait to see if it has brass liners. I'm stll learning.

Marv

Very nice knife Warren!

 

Thanks for posting and welcome!