The "Bloody Hand"

[Bugme]

I recently took a chance on the helmet shown below and got it in my hands this week. So, I think I made a good choice. First a little history about the insignia. The "Bloody Hand" or "Red Hand" depicted on the front is representative of the WWI 93rd Infantry division 371st and 372nd Regiments. The 93rd wasn't really a division until after WWI, it was a group of four U.S. regiments assigned to fight with the French. After the war when the "Bloody Hand" was initially adopted, many felt it could be a racial problem especially in the South since the 93rd was a black division. So the Adrian Helmet patch became the official patch for all regiments.

 

The helmet: Initially, it looked to me like there was an aging or antique wash over this helmet but, something inside me said to go after it anyhow. Once in hand, I wasn't disappointed. What is seen is actually the olive drab paint showing through the camo pattern paint.

[Bugme]

Under the brim is the name: Victor "Lucky" Brown. I have not done any research so far on this but, I'm hoping to narrow it down.

[Bugme]

Below is a WWI "Bloody Hand" regimental flag for reference.

[jpstout]

Scott, Very Nice!

regards,

pat

[Grant G.]

Very nice helmet Scott :w00t: ! And also thank you for the history lesson too, I've never heard of "The Bloody Hand" before :thumbsup: .

-Grant

[Leatherwringer]

It is GREAT posts like yours with the pics and history that are going to

push me over the edge and get my first WW1 helmet......God Help Me

[37thguy]

Nice pot Scott. Was he 372d? One Company was from Cleveland, I can check on him if so.

 

Mark

[BEAST]

That's a great looking helmet! Good luck with the research!

[Bugme]

Thanks guys! This is one of those rare ones you can miss if you don't know what the insignia is. In the case of this helmet, no one seemed to know what it was which resulted in this helmet being in my collection for one Benjamin.

[HoovieDude]

Ya know, after seeing all the various painted 17's like this, it really tempts me to add those to the collection too!!!

 

Nice lid Scott, and I love the history behind it. Nothing like learning something new :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[glopinsky]

Fine looking helmet despite of the lac of linner.

And great info about the "Bloody hand"

 

Thanks for posting.

Xavier

[Bugme]

Nice pot Scott. Was he 372d? One Company was from Cleveland, I can check on him if so.

 

Mark

I'm not sure if he was 371st or 372nd so, if it isn't too much trouble, could you check your information? I might just get lucky.

 

 

Ya know, after seeing all the various painted 17's like this, it really tempts me to add those to the collection too!!!

 

Nice lid Scott, and I love the history behind it. Nothing like learning something new :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Mike, I started with one M1917 and today, I have as many of those as I have M-1's. I've tried unsuccessfully a few times to focus on just one but, it never worked. Thus, i have a double addiction.

 

As for the history, it is awesome isn't it. the 93rd never got the accolades it deserved because of the race issue but, they fought with great valor!

 

 

 

Fine looking helmet despite of the lac of linner.

And great info about the "Bloody hand"

Thanks for posting.

Xavier

Yeah, a liner would be great but, you know as well as me that most liners on M-17's rotted out years ago so, I'll take them in any condition.

[ccmax]

Nice piece and interesting story Scott.

[Sabrejet]

Did someone mention missing liners? Here you go....

 

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=92946

 

 

Sabrejet :thumbsup:

[aef1917]

Did someone mention missing liners? Here you go....

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=92946

Sabrejet :thumbsup:

 

 

Nnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Bugme]

Nnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Don't worry my friend, no repro for this boy. :yucky: No offense Sabrejet.

[Cobrahistorian]

Really nice helmet Scott! The 371st and 372nd adopted the French 157th Division's "Bloody Hand" insignia. While the 371st was disbanded after WWI (they were a draftee regiment) the 372nd kept the bloody hand as their insignia through the 1940s. There's some great history to the 372nd(and the 369th, 370th and 371st).

 

The 372nd was comprised of battalions from the Washington DC (1st Separate Battalion) and Ohio (9th Separate Battalion), and Separate Companies from Maryland, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Tennessee comprised the 3rd battalion. Interestingly, a great deal of the replacements for the 372nd came from Michigan, so it is fairly common to see unit members that were non-Guardsmen from a common geographic area. We've got several 372nd pieces in the museum's collection.

 

Great helmet and great history that not many people know about!

 

Jon

[Bugme]

Really nice helmet Scott! The 371st and 372nd adopted the French 157th Division's "Bloody Hand" insignia. While the 371st was disbanded after WWI (they were a draftee regiment) the 372nd kept the bloody hand as their insignia through the 1940s. There's some great history to the 372nd(and the 369th, 370th and 371st).

 

The 372nd was comprised of battalions from the Washington DC (1st Separate Battalion) and Ohio (9th Separate Battalion), and Separate Companies from Maryland, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Tennessee comprised the 3rd battalion. Interestingly, a great deal of the replacements for the 372nd came from Michigan, so it is fairly common to see unit members that were non-Guardsmen from a common geographic area. We've got several 372nd pieces in the museum's collection.

 

Great helmet and great history that not many people know about!

 

Jon

Thanks for the additional information Jon! I was not aware that the 372nd kept the "Bloody Hand' insignia into the 40's. I agree, what a fabulous and almost forgotten history of these regiments!

[Sabrejet]

Don't worry my friend, no repro for this boy. :yucky: No offense Sabrejet.

 

 

None taken!

 

Sabrejet

[Bugme]

Here's a period photo(I procured from another thread) of members of the 372nd receiving French awards.

[Croix de Guerre]

Scott, I ran across this old thread of your and thought I'd share a photo with you all. I used to be a very avid collector of WWI black images and material until I switched over to the ambulance guys. The history of black doughboys in WWI is a very interesting and very sad subject. Congrads on picking up a wonderful and poignant artifact of these little known heroes.

 

As stated the four infantry regiments that composed the 93rd Division never served as a true division until after the armistice. The separate regiments served independently and as a result adopted unique shoulder insignia specific to each regiment. The 369th "Harlem Hellfighters" were dubbed the "Rattlesnake Regiment" and chose a coiled rattlesnake as their insignia. The 371st and 372nd were awarded the "Bloody Hand" for their service in the French 15th Division. The 370th were called "partridges" by their French comrades for it was said they were so full of pride that they always puffed their chests out. I was never able to determine if the 370th ever had any unit specific insignia.

 

Once the four separate regiments of the 93rd "division" left French control and came under direct American authority at the embarkation center at St. Nazaire, France things sadly changed for these proud men. The 369th were hurriedly sent back to the US and can be seen wearing their rattlesnake patches in their parade up 5th Avenue. The 371st and 372nd regiments were ordered to remove their hard won patches in exchange for a new patch bearing the silhouette of a French Adrian helmet. The new patch was adopted for two main reasons' 1. It gave a single insignia for the entire division rather than individual insignia for each regiment, and number 2, there was a great deal of concern about reintroducing these men back into white society. The 371st along with many companies in the 372nd were recruited from the Deep South. The "Bloody Hand" was deemed by many as being too bloodthirsty and provocative to the concerns of the white authorities that were worried of trouble they might have when these men got back home to the realities of "Jim Crowe" America.

 

After much grumbling and protests the men of these regiments removed their proud red hand patches putting them back on once their troop ships set sail for home.

[Croix de Guerre]

Scott, I ran across this old thread of your and thought I'd share a photo with you all. I used to be a very avid collector of WWI black images and material until I switched over to the ambulance guys. The history of black doughboys in WWI is a very interesting and very sad subject. Congrads on picking up a wonderful and poignant artifact of these little known heroes.

 

As stated the four infantry regiments that composed the 93rd Division never served as a true division until after the armistice. The separate regiments served independently and as a result adopted unique shoulder insignia specific to each regiment. The 369th "Harlem Hellfighters" were dubbed the "Rattlesnake Regiment" and chose a coiled rattlesnake as their insignia. The 371st and 372nd were awarded the "Bloody Hand" for their service in the French 15th Division. The 370th were called "partridges" by their French comrades for it was said they were so full of pride that they always puffed their chests out. I was never able to determine if the 370th ever had any unit specific insignia.

 

Once the four separate regiments of the 92nd "division" left French control and came under direct American authority at the embarkation center at St. Nazaire, France things sadly changed for these proud men. The 369th were hurriedly sent back to the US and can be seen wearing their rattlesnake patches in their parade up 5th Avenue. The 371st and 372nd regiments were ordered to remove their hard won patches in exchange for a new patch bearing the silhouette of a French Adrian helmet. The new patch was adopted for two main reasons' 1. It gave a single insignia for the entire division rather than individual insignia for each regiment, and number 2, there was a great deal of concern about reintroducing these men back into white society. The 371st along with many companies in the 372nd were recruited from the Deep South. The "Bloody Hand" was deemed by many as being too bloodthirsty and provocative to the concerns of the white authorities that were worried of trouble they might have when these men got back home to the realities of "Jim Crowe" America.

 

After much grumbling and protests the men of these regiments removed their proud red hand patches putting them back on once their troop ships set sail for home.

 

 

These two men are idenitified as George Biggs and George Vernall of Co. M 372nd Infantry, 93rd Division. Both Biggs and Vernall were from Connecticut where this image was taken.

[Croix de Guerre]

The Red Hand insignia of the 371st and 372nd Infantry Regiments

 

The insignia of the 93rd Division

[Bugme]

Thanks for the expansion of the information I already had about these regiments. This is just one of those helmets that speaks to me every time I see it and is one of the few which will probably never be sold. Speaking of selling, do you want to move those two photo's you've posted here.

[man860]

Wow, very cool helmet Scott!