otter42 Posted June 26, 2009 Share #1 Posted June 26, 2009 I found this group at a local antique store. Included in this group is all the medals, some DI's, some foreign pins, his desk name plate, I believe it was Robert Schwartz. The owner didn't have the medals and other stuff available when I came back to take a picture. I had offered him $200. for the lot, it has all 3 bronze stars in the lot, I didn't check the backs for his name, (too excited), what do you think, did I offer too much? I believe there was another CIB in the lot as well. When I did a quick calculation in my head at pricing each piece, it was well over the $200. There are no hats in the group. They may come up later on when the family finds them. Thanks for any advice, I no without seeing the medal and the rest it's hard to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QED4 Posted June 26, 2009 Share #2 Posted June 26, 2009 What something is worth is a subjective thing and only the buyer really know what he is willing to pay but I can say I would not pay $200.00 for that uniform unless it had about nine $20.00 bills in the pocket. There is nothing unique or unusual about it and was worn sometime after 1956 and that style is still worn today. I don't know what else comes with it but unless all three Bronze Stars are named you don't really have a grouping as there is nothing to tie it together except the seller's word, it is just a bunch of very common stuff. Unless there is a lot more than you have mentioned including several named pieces it is really the sort of thing you find in thrift shops. It has been said a hundred times here, "buy the uniform not the story". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder505 Posted June 26, 2009 Share #3 Posted June 26, 2009 What something is worth is a subjective thing and only the buyer really know what he is willing to pay but I can say I would not pay $200.00 for that uniform unless it had about nine $20.00 bills in the pocket. There is nothing unique or unusual about it and was worn sometime after 1956 and that style is still worn today. I don't know what else comes with it but unless all three Bronze Stars are named you don't really have a grouping as there is nothing to tie it together except the seller's word, it is just a bunch of very common stuff. Unless there is a lot more than you have mentioned including several named pieces it is really the sort of thing you find in thrift shops. It has been said a hundred times here, "buy the uniform not the story". I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted June 26, 2009 Share #4 Posted June 26, 2009 What something is worth is a subjective thing and only the buyer really know what he is willing to pay but I can say I would not pay $200.00 for that uniform unless it had about nine $20.00 bills in the pocket. There is nothing unique or unusual about it and was worn sometime after 1956 and that style is still worn today. I don't know what else comes with it but unless all three Bronze Stars are named you don't really have a grouping as there is nothing to tie it together except the seller's word, it is just a bunch of very common stuff. Unless there is a lot more than you have mentioned including several named pieces it is really the sort of thing you find in thrift shops. It has been said a hundred times here, "buy the uniform not the story". I disagree. You mentioned medals, but didn't post any photos of them so perhaps they weren't accounted for by the other members who have commented here. What is of foremost importance in this deal is whether it is an acceptable price to you. If it is, then that is fair. Assuming that all of the medals are vintage and are present as stated, I think you easily have enough pieces for the money you've offered. Of course the "foreign pins" you mentioned could really drive the price up, or they could just be misc. junk to go with a nice early AG44 blouse. I'd assume the CIB is sterling as are the LTC oakleaves. It looks to me like a nice, clean uniform to a two war hero. Enjoy it if you can get it! Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted June 26, 2009 Share #5 Posted June 26, 2009 There's a chance this is the uniform of Lt. Col. Robert Schwartz, asst. G-3, 2nd Div., in 1950 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted June 26, 2009 Share #6 Posted June 26, 2009 If the medals are named, you have a good group. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36-tex Posted June 26, 2009 Share #7 Posted June 26, 2009 Depending on the medals, I would say $200 is o.k. If the medals are not included or etc, then you are to high. If it is "Lt. Col. Robert Schwartz, asst. G-3, 2nd Div., in 1950", you are really o.k. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted June 26, 2009 Share #8 Posted June 26, 2009 If the medals are named, you have a good group. -Ski I seriously doub tthat the medals will be named, but the price is still decent. It also looks like you have a positive ID on the owner. :thumbsup: Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted June 26, 2009 Share #9 Posted June 26, 2009 The Lt Col Robert Schwartz reference comes from a footnote in the book Disaster in Korea: The Chinese Confront MacArthur: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QED4 Posted June 27, 2009 Share #10 Posted June 27, 2009 It seems unlikely to me that this would be the same man. If he was a Lieutenant Colonel in 1950 and good enough to be the Division G-2 it would seem he would have made full Colonel by the time he would have worn this uniform. Also the officer in question was a reserve officer for at least 10 years and it actually looks like the hourglass on the ribbon bar may be silver making 20+ years in the Reserves. I don't think a Reserve Officer would be the G-2 of a Regular Army Division. If he got out of the Regular Army after Korea and joined the Reserves and put in 20 more years he cretainly would have been a full bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted June 27, 2009 Share #11 Posted June 27, 2009 I just noticed the missing National Defense medal ribbon. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted June 27, 2009 Share #12 Posted June 27, 2009 It seems unlikely to me that this would be the same man. If he was a Lieutenant Colonel in 1950 and good enough to be the Division G-2 The one in the book was the "assistant G-2" and I am sure lots of reservists held key positions during the Korean War. I've acquired lots of stuff from guys were Lt. Col. for pretty much 50% or more of their 20 year careers ending in the early 60's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otter42 Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted June 27, 2009 WOW, thank you so much for all the info. The dealer said it was mine for $200. so when he rounds up the medals and extras I will post them for you to see. Thanks again, this helped me a lot! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted June 27, 2009 Share #14 Posted June 27, 2009 Otter42, I found information on a LTC Robert M. Schwartz, USAR, who retired in 1960. If you get this group. let me know and I can send to you his service number so you can request his records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otter42 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted July 1, 2009 Well, I ended up getting the group. The other guy interested in it pasted on it at $200.00. I couldn't believe it when I turned the bronze stars over and 2 of them are named to Robert M. Schwartz, the 3rd is not named. It also appears he was awarded 4 bronze stars. There is also a arrowhead device on his Asiatic medal, but not on his uniform? There was also a enlisted mans class A jacket, but has nothing on it. The CIB on the Class A is marked Meyer and sterling, nice heavy one. The small CIB is Gemsco and sterling. One of the DI's marked C. POELLATH & some long name underneath, I can't make it out. I have so many questions about this lot, why is there a WWII occupation medal with Germany on it, if he was in the Pacific? There are still 3 unopened footlockers that the family is going to let this dealer go through at a later date, and I will have first shot at it since I bought this group! What do you think, did I do ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otter42 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted July 1, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otter42 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted July 1, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otter42 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted July 1, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otter42 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted July 1, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otter42 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted July 1, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainofthe7th Posted July 1, 2009 Share #21 Posted July 1, 2009 I'd say that's a very nice group. I think you did well for what you paid. Just because it is post WWII doesn't mean it's worthless... always pay what something is worth to you. You will never have buyers remorse and the item will always be a great piece in your collection. If this was the same thing but the guy was in the 7th Div in Korea, I probably would have paid close to $200 as well. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim2 Posted July 1, 2009 Share #22 Posted July 1, 2009 I think you did alright. That is a nice named grouping. Good luck on your research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otter42 Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share #23 Posted August 7, 2009 Ok, need more help. This is what was sent to me, any ideas why the bronze stars weren't listed, and the arrowhead for his Asiatic medal? Thanks in advance. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted August 8, 2009 Share #24 Posted August 8, 2009 Ok, need more help. This is what was sent to me, any ideas why the bronze stars weren't listed, and the arrowhead for his Asiatic medal? Thanks in advance. Ken Well, remember that is a government document .... He gets a mention here: http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section...mp;archive=true in a 1956 Stars & Stripes article called "'Aggressors' meet 'defenders' at Hohenfels" "Your thoughts turn to all of the planning that went into the exercises. To Lt Col Corson Hilton, chief umpire for VII Corps, who runs the show and who will conduct a critique when the training test is over. You consider the role of Col William Kunzig, CO of the 60th Inf Regt, whose units played the part of the defenders; of Capt Rodney Rehfeld, of the 9th Recon Co, which formed a part of the aggressor group and, most. certainly, the activities of Lt Col Robert M. Schwartz, VII Corps liaison officer; Capt James M. Tobin, and 1st Lt Donald L. Wilson, operations officers." Also found this: "California Death Index, 1940-1997 about Robert Myron Schwartz Name: Robert Myron Schwartz Social Security #: 554056168 Sex: MALE Birth Date: 4 Jul 1912 Birthplace: Washington Death Date: 27 Feb 1986 Death Place: Santa Clara " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted August 8, 2009 Share #25 Posted August 8, 2009 I have so many questions about this lot, why is there a WWII occupation medal with Germany on it, if he was in the Pacific? This January 1954 Stars and Stripes article will clear that up: and here's a Sept. 1953 S&S article with some more details about him: By the way it appears he may have spent time commanding a National Guard unit in Wisconsin in the late 60's-very early 70's, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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