17th Airborne SSI: Part 1

[17thairborne]

This may stir up some discussion, criticism or perhaps controversy, but I thought I’d tackle the task of “typing” 17th Airborne Division SSIs. My methodology adopts the convention of designating each patch by a particular “type”; as in Type-2 or Type-6. It further adds the addition of 1-piece, 2-piece (with separate AIRBORNE tab), being reserved as a standard for each type.

I have categorized 18 different types of 17th Airborne SSIs. Not all of them can be found in both 1-piece and 2-piece versions. Rather than taking two exactly similar embroidered patches and calling the one with a separated tab a Type 5 and the one with fixed tab Type-6, I will simply call them Type-5, or Type-5, 1-piece. Most of the different variations were made as 2-piece, so I’ve left it as either a Type-X or Type X, 1-piece.

Given the length of this post I’ve broken it into 4 separate posts beginning with Types 1-5, then 6-10, then type 11-15 and finally 16-18.

 

I've noticed that there are several methods of distinguishing the types of 17th A/B SSIs. One manner is the direction that the talons are facing. Some are made with 2 facing forward, 2 facing aft (known by collectors as the reverse claw or opposing talon), while others are made with 3 facing aft, one facing forward (standard talon). On some patches the Eagles legs and/or talons may have edge embroidery around them, or they may be embroidered without a separate border between the golden-yellow and black background. There are also variations in the thickness of the talons. Some are fat, while others are thin and pointy. Upon careful examination you can also see a definite direction of embroidery. It can be horizontal style, vertical style or cascading style of embroidery (ripple stitch). Finally, there are some specific “Theater Made” variations and bullion embroidered types which are notable. Here are types 1-5. I’ll run another post for the other types soon to keep the size of the post reasonable. FE is Fully Embroidered.

 

Type 1: FE, Opposing talon, vertical stitch pattern, outline stitching, split leg feathers, happens to be a 1-piece variation

 

 

Type 2: FE, Opposing talon, horizontal stitch pattern, outline stitching, “3-D” toes ( ridges embroidered on all four toes)

 

 

Type 3: FE, Opposing talon, ripple stitch, needle claws

 

 

Type 4: FE, Opposing talon, horizontal stitch pattern, outline stitching,

 

 

Type 5: FE, Standard talon, ripple stitch, no outline stitching,

[17thairborne]

17th Airborne SSI: Part II

 

This post will address the second group of 5 different types of 17th Airborne SSIs encountered by collectors. These five are all rendered with the “standard talon” configuration with three talons pointing aft and one pointing forward. The variations in the details primarily relate to the direction of embroidery, the inclusion or deletion of edge stitching on the talon and leg feathers, and the density of the embroidery.

 

It can be noted that among the different manufacturers using the Schiffli method of embroidering patches there was a fairly wide variation in the density of the stitches used to render the feathers and talons of the eagle’s claw. Most of the 17th SSI variations have an “average” density which covers the pattern fairly evenly with overlapping stitches. One, the Type 8, uses a relatively low density of stitches and it almost appears as if the bottom material is visible through the stitches. Contrast this with the Type 1, which uses a very dense embroidery which by design gives the detail an almost 3-dimensional quality. The last two, the Type 9 and 10, have very finely rendered talons which give a needle-like appearance. Contrast these to the other types where the talons are fatter or have a more rounded point at the end due, in part, to the use of edge stitching between the golden-yellow and black background.

 

 

Type 6: FE, Standard claw, vertical stitch, outline stitching,

 

Type 7: FE, Standard claw, horizontal stitch, outline stitching, 1-piece on blue twill

 

Type 8: FE, Standard claw, horizontal stitch, outline stitching, low detail on toe ridges

 

Type 9: FE, Standard claw, horizontal stitch, outline stitching on leg and toes, needle talons, 1-piece

 

Type 10: FE, Standard claw, horizontal stitch, no outline stitching, needle talons, 1-piece

[blitzkrieg gsd]

Mods please pin this for reference on these pathes. This is good work and needs to be saved once done.

[17thairborne]

Thanks for the supportive comments!

[17thairborne]

17th Airborne SSI: Part III

 

This post covering Type 11-15 reviews the last of the “factory” made variations known to me. These patches include foreign or theater made variations.

 

The Type 11 is assumed to be of American manufacture, although I have not confirmed that yet. It closely matches the Type 6, although the border of the patch is rendered in black instead of OD. These are not commonly encountered and were produced in the 1-piece variation with a tab that more closely conformed to the circumference of the outer diameter unlike most other tabs which have a larger circumference to the bottom portion of the arc. Unfortunately I do not have an example with attached tab, but for those with a copy of United States Army Shoulder patches and Related Insignia: From World War I to Korea 1st Division to 40th Division by William Keller, there is a fine example of a Type 11, 1-piece. They are quite rare.

 

http://www.amazon.com/United-Shoulder-Patc...a/dp/0764313940

 

The Type 12 is the first of the German factory made variations and follows the pattern of many post-war German manufactured SSIs showing a uniquely German pattern of stitches with low density and low detail on the talons. The shade of OD used on the circular border is noticeable different from the American manufactured versions, being somewhat lighter. The back of the patch displays what some collectors refer to as “salt and pepper”. (Will discuss in another thread).

 

The Type 13 is a mystery to me. It is unverified if it is of American, German or French manufacture. The outer diameter of the patch is larger than the standard 17th SSI. The unique aspect of this patch is the rendering of the tips of the feathers and the talons in orange. These are also quite rare and only turn up from time to time. I recall seeing one of these without a tab at the 2008 SoS and told myself, “I already have one, what do I need with a second one”. The price of $48 at the time was a steal in my opinion. I’m sure the purchaser, if reading this, will recall the one I am referring to.

 

The Type 14 is a German made patch using the BeVo style of embroidery. Typically these came with a BeVo airborne tab as well. This particular example has a FE tab, which is not correct. The notation BeVo comes from the name of the German manufacturers who merged in a partnership to form one company that used the Jacquard method of weaving to create these finely detailed, thin patches.

 

The final “factory” made 17th Airborne Division SSI is the Type 15, which is of British manufacture. It is characterized by the Opposing Talon style, uses a horizontal stitching pattern with edge stitching on the golden-yellow design and has a different shade of OD on the border. Some collectors describe the dye used in British patches as “translucent”. It is noticeable different when compared to American thread colors. Typical colors used on the reverse of the British patch include red, orange, black or white. This particular example has the reverse rendered in black thread.

 

 

Type 11: FE, Standard claw, vertical stitch, outline stitching, black border

 

Type 12: FE, German made, Standard claw, low density horizontal stitch, outline stitching, low detail on toe ridges, circular patch border medium shade of OD green.

 

Type 13: FE, Normal claw, vertical stitching, outline stitching, needle claws, edge feathers and talons in orange, larger diameter

 

Type 14: Bevo, German made, standard claw, horizontal stitching

 

Type 15: FE, British made, reverse claw, horizontal stitching, edge stitching, circular patch border light (translucent) shade of OD green (typical of OD used on other British made patches)

[Proud Kraut]

Great patches, thanks for sharing! You should also post these variants here:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...p?showtopic=112

 

Or post a link to this thread in the 17th A/B Div reference.

[17thairborne]

Thanks for the comment. I'll post a link there. I had not seen that thread.

[posse]

Oz,

 

Great job!

 

This is very, very interesting material for us, 17th A/B collectors!

 

Many, many thanks!!!

 

Bart P

[17thairborne]

Bart,

Thanks for spurring me on. I'll post another Part soon.

[17thairborne]

17th Airborne SSI” Part IV

 

The most fascinating aspect of patch collecting in my opinion is the wide variety of hand-made, bullion or modified patches. The characterization of these patches comprise the last three types of 17th Airborne Division SSIs.

 

Type 16: Photographic evidence confirms that some patches of 17th veterans were modified by painting, dying or overstitching the talons in red. This is most likely were the “Blood on the Talon” term comes from, denoting the 17th’s combat lineage from being bloodied in combat. Most, who served with the 17th in one or more of the Ardennes Campaign, the Central Germany Campaign, or the Rhineland Campaign, are combat veterans who were “bloodied” in battle. Some of them proudly modified their SSIs by changing the color of the talons red (and sometimes also the tip feathers). This describes the Type 16 patch. Although not specifically embroidered in this manner (as far as I can determine) the Blood on the Talon modification was rendered on any type of SSI. Troopers used either red thread, red embroidery wool, red dye, or even paint or ink. The red was usually applied to the talons and the tip feathers on the leg, but other variations exist. This example shows drops of blood coming from the bloody talon. It came from an unnamed 4-pocket tunic which had artillery disks and no other markings. I loathe the day I removed it, and I hope I can be forgiven as I violated one of the cardinal rules of avid collectors/historians (Leave it alone!)

 

The Type 17 describes any hand-embroidered 17th SSI. The materials, type of thread, colors, backing, details and country of original are endless. The enclosed example came from an ebay purchase in 2009. It is attached to a wool combat shirt and has no provenance. The final bid of $109 one early Sunday morning renders the authenticity of the patch as questionable. The quality of the workmanship is also suspect, but I am not convinced either way. I am certainly open to comments on this particular patch. There was a series of PIR Pocket Patches that were judged as reproductions that surfaced between the last 10-5 years. Most will recall the workmanship and might be able to make a comparison to this one. I like the character of the patch, regardless of any conclusive judgement.

 

The final SSI variation is the Type 18. This consists of any 17th SSI rendered in one or more colors or types of bullion. The variations are, again, endless and the examples fetch from $200 to a range approaching $800. I have a rather tattered Type 18 that includes the use of bullion and wool thread. It is heavily worn and somewhat damaged. I retrieved this from an Ebay.FR grouping which consisted of a heavily moth eaten Ike jacket in shambles, a few ration cans and a Fort Pit Beer bottle with partially burnt label. It appeared as though it came from a burn pit that was uncovered. The price of Euro 51 was, in my opinion, a steal.

 

Type 16: Any type of patch with added red stitching on talons or the tips of the feathers depicting “bloody talons” or combat baptism

 

Type 17: Any theater made hand-embroidered patch

 

 

TYPE 18: Any theater made patch using one or more colors of bullion thread

[craig_pickrall]

Great patch display, thanks for posting.

 

This is the offical drawing from the QM General Office.

 

[JimmCapp]

Nice collection, has to be one of my favorite Airborne units.

My best friend's dad was a member of the 17th and related that there were quite a few fights started when other soldiers asked about the "chicken foot" on their shoulder.

[17thairborne]

Great patch display, thanks for posting.

 

Craig,

Thanks for the comments. The drawing is great. That is a great addition to info on the 17th SSI. I've got another post to make yet.

[17thairborne]

Nice collection, has to be one of my favorite Airborne units.

My best friend's dad was a member of the 17th and related that there were quite a few fights started when other soldiers asked about the "chicken foot" on their shoulder.

Jim,

Thanks. It occurred to me a few years ago that not all 17th SSIs were equal. I was amazed at how many varieties there are. I wonder if i missed any!! :pinch: As for the fights...that sounds like the paras. I have a garrison cap I purchased a while ago. Behind the parachute patch the trooper had sewn in a silver dollar. I was told they used those as a form of black jack when they got in bar fights. They could whip out the hat and swing it at the other guy. The silver dollar traveling at high velocity on the end o the cap made quite a crack when it hit the skull. :yucky:

[spectre]

Here is one to add, I don't know how you want to classify it. One piece, oppossing claw done on tan twill.

 

Great thread and collection shown.

 

Alan

[17thairborne]

Alan,

That would be a Type 1 on OD3 color twill, 1-piece. I'm curious if the backing thread is of the dark OD shade or white? It lloks like the right edge of the tab might haev either been slightly cut off or the machine that was rendering the black tab ran out of black thread and the patch was incomplete. Someone cut it off the large 'sheet". You can just see where the right edge of the black tab ends. It's hard to find unfinished patches. I assume the manufacturer threw them away. Thanks for sharing.

[craig_pickrall]

In the 50's lots of surplus stores had big boxes of error patches that sold very cheap. I'm guessing about $0.05 each. I have a few I picked up then that just had slight errors. I guess there is a market for everything. New condition patches in excellent condition were about $0.25 then.

[17thairborne]

17th Airborne Division SSI: part V

 

There are 5 specific factory made patches that were manufactured as 1-piece Types that I have identified: Types 1, 7, 9, 10 and 11. These are all shown in one of the previous posts with the exception of the type 11.

 

A majority of the factory made 17th SSIs were done with a white backing thread on the Schiffli machine bobbin. Few examples exist depicting the “greenback” style. Typically these are Type 1, made early in 1943. Once the manufacturers were directed to conserve green dye for uniforms, the use of green for the bobbins was quickly discontinued. The British tended to use various gaudy shades (in my opinion) of thread in their machine bobbins, notably pink, purple, orange, and red. This particular example is rendered in black. The reverse design on the BeVo type patches shows a “negative” image of the obverse.

SSIs were typically embroidered on twill material. Factory made 17th SSIs are known to exist on various shades of OD #3, OD#7, black and varying shades of blue.

 

Patches manufactured on Schiffli embroidering machines were done in large lots with dozens of patches on one ‘sheet” These were then cut out using cutting dyes that matched the outline of the patch. The five 1-piece patches were cut such that there were two vertical edges from the ends of the tab to the left and right edge of the talon patch creating a shield design which was rounded on the top and bottom. The Type 9 is cut in a different fashion from the other 1-piece types in that the cutting die angles in toward the circular talon patch at a 90 degree angle, rather than following the vertical sides of the tab downward until they meet the left and right edges of the circular patches as with the Type 1, 7, 10 and 11. Most likely, the 2-piece patches were embroidered with multiple tabs on one machine and the talon patches on another.

 

This particular example shows a patch that was nearly finished on a Schiffli machine when its bobbin ran out of thread. It shows how thread was spared by not completely filling the backing color behind where the golden yellow would be embroidered. One of the administrators for the U.S. Militaria Forum, Craig Pickrall, reports that there were big boxes of these error patches sold during the 1950’s at very cheap prices. In any rate, I have not seen many examples of these appear on the market in recent years.

[17thairborne]

In the 50's lots of surplus stores had big boxes of error patches that sold very cheap. I'm guessing about $0.05 each. I have a few I picked up then that just had slight errors. I guess there is a market for everything. New condition patches in excellent condition were about $0.25 then.

Craig,

I wish I was around when patches were that cheap. Think how nice our collections would be today!!

[spectre]

Here is the back of mine, regular white back.

 

I once thought that it might have been cut too close on the right end of the tab but looking closely you can see the small black border all the way around. The yellow lettering seems to have been shifted over a bit too much and ended up putting the 'E' on top of the border. I don't have a close up picture but in hand you can see this is what happened.

 

Alan

[17thairborne]

I see that now. It shows up well in the reverse of the patch. Now if these were only priced like misprinted currency!!!

[J_Andrews]

Re the silver dollar "barroom brawl" blackjack: A pre-war Philippines vet told me that when the garrison belt was dropped (in early 1942) the barroom fighters lost a favorite weapon. The leather of the belt, wrapped around the knuckles a few times made sort of leather "brass" knuckles, AND the metal buckle could be swung as a whip cum blackjack. He went on to say that SOME GIs sharpened the edges of the buckle really slice, but that the MPs would confiscate such belts, then write up the owner as being out of uniform. If they were caught with such in a brawl, they could be charged with aggravated assault and/or assault with intent to kill. Shrapened buckles were "a Marine trick" and not acceptable in the Army.

[17thairborne]

Re the silver dollar "barroom brawl" blackjack: A pre-war Philippines vet told me that when the garrison belt was dropped (in early 1942) the barroom fighters lost a favorite weapon. The leather of the belt, wrapped around the knuckles a few times made sort of leather "brass" knuckles, AND the metal buckle could be swung as a whip cum blackjack. He went on to say that SOME GIs sharpened the edges of the buckle really slice, but that the MPs would confiscate such belts, then write up the owner as being out of uniform. If they were caught with such in a brawl, they could be charged with aggravated assault and/or assault with intent to kill. Shrapened buckles were "a Marine trick" and not acceptable in the Army.

It's a dang good thing the Marines had higher brawling standards...or was that the Army who had higherstandards! I hope my comment doesn't start a brawl. :w00t: I'll need to get my belt handy.

[warpath]

Another variant

[warpath]

Another variant

and another red claws type