Bagman Posted February 24, 2011 Share #1 Posted February 24, 2011 It's a slow evening so I thought I would post some images of what I believe to be the final two variations of the distinctive First Aid Pouches made at the Marine Corps Quartermaster Depot in Philadelphia just prior to WWII. The first is what I refer to as the "Type 3" (my terminology). It varies from the "Type 1" which first appeared in WWI, or shortly before, that had two grommets in the flap through which a loose belt hook was inserted, and from the "Type 2" which retained the grommets for some reason but sewed the hook to the pouch with a short piece of webbing in the way we are most used to seeing. The "Type 3" changed the basic shape of the earlier pouches by giving the flap a continuous rounded shape rather than just rounding off the corners. The overall dimensions are somewhat smaller than the "Type 1/2" pattern and there are NO grommets installed. The same type "Carr" snap fasteners are used as on the preceeding pattern(s). Many collectors have doubted that the "Type 3" was a true period item produced at the Phila. Depot, but the pictures below would seem to go a long way to confirm that it was. These are pictures from an Ebay auction about three years ago, and the pouch has a "DQP., 1939-1940" date stamp that does not look to be a fake. This pouch and another identical one picked up at SOS even earlier are in the possession of a Marine collector acquaintance of mine from Iowa, and they certainly appear to be the real deal to me. You are free to disagree, but I am convinced (for now!). Here's the "Type 3" in the following posts: Terry ("Bagman") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #2 Posted February 24, 2011 Well TIME OUT! I will have to figure out how to downsize these danged images before I post them. Sorry. My apologies. Back when I cure my technical short comings. Bagman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Boghots Posted February 24, 2011 Share #3 Posted February 24, 2011 Well TIME OUT! I will have to figure out how to downsize these danged images before I post them. Sorry. My apologies. Back when I cure my technical short comings. Bagman No sweat Bagman, I for one will be waiting . . . :thumbsup: Best regards, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #4 Posted February 24, 2011 If this doesn't work, the h*** with it! "Type 3" Pic #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted February 24, 2011 "Type 3" Pic #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #6 Posted February 24, 2011 "Type 3" Pic#3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted February 24, 2011 Whew!! That's a relief. Technology drives me nuts at times! There was a subsequent variation in these pouches that I will call the "Type 4". I only became aware of it very recently and will have to do some work to provide any very useful images. Since I do not have a digital camera, I may have to scan my pouch and post the scans. As a teaser, I will say that it, too, has a DQP stamp---"DQP., 1940-1941", and the pattern varied from the "Type 3". I believe this "Type 4" was most likely the final variation to appear, but that is just conjecture. More when I have something to show. Good Night. Terry ("Bagman") :salute: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Flage Guy Posted February 24, 2011 Share #8 Posted February 24, 2011 I can only imagine what that gem sold for; looking forward to more pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted February 24, 2011 Share #9 Posted February 24, 2011 It is indeed a beauty. Never saw one with a date before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted February 24, 2011 Share #10 Posted February 24, 2011 It is indeed a beauty. Never saw one with a date before. Me neither. Thanks for sharing the pics with us Terry and for the useful description of the 3 types of aid pouch. I've just added a 'type 1' to my collection, rather recently but it's not to hand to take pics at the moment. Look forward to seeing some more pics from fellow forum members :thumbsup: Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #11 Posted February 24, 2011 I can only imagine what that gem sold for; looking forward to more pics! 'Flage- Funny you should mention that....I checked back in my files and discovered that this "Type 3" pouch sold on Ebay back in Feb. 2008 for, get ready, $426.00!! I was watching the thing but decided that, at the time, the bidding was getting too rich for my blood. As I said, I know the winner, and to beat him I would have had to be prepared to go up over $500. Given the rarity of finding a DATED pouch, as Craig and Wil confirmed, maybe I should have decided differently...... The pouch that I just recently acquired and that I am referring to as a "Type 4" is also dated as I mentioned. Until I can get some decent pictures, I will attempt to post the two crappy images that went with the auction. They were badly photographed, consume lots of KB, and I have had to crop them with the limited capabilities and "skill" that I possess. They will just have to do for the time being. Thanks to you guys for commenting. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #12 Posted February 24, 2011 Hopefully... "Type 4" Pic #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted February 24, 2011 Again, with hope in my heart... "Type 4" Pic #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #14 Posted February 24, 2011 I have compared my new "Type 4" with an undated "Type 3" that I've had for some time. The flap of this "Type 4" is about 3/8 inch wider than on the "Type 3", and the curvature of the flap edge is flatter. There is very slightly more room in the "Type 4", but both are a good deal less roomy than the earlier Type 1 & 2" pouches. A dressing packet is a tight fit to get through the mouth of both the "3" and "4". It could be that my perception of differences between the "3" and "4" is just a case of collector vanity, thinking that I have discovered some "great truth". Maybe all I am seeing are manufacturing variations. Differences without a distinction.....The wider flap on the "Type 4" makes it seem that the Depot had returned to the dimensions of the original WWI era pouches, but the actual pocket of the pouch is virtually the same size as the pouch with the rounded flap that I am calling "Type 3". I sure don't expect everyone, or anyone for that matter, to accept my designation of these two variations of the Phila. Depot First Aid Pouches as different "types". Trying to classify every piece of gear as distinct because of minor variations seems to be a collector disease, and I am afflicted...... I will try, when the means are available, to put up some better comparison pictures of the "Type 4" pouch. Comments are welcome. Feel free to debunk my "discovery". Respectfully submitted, :bye1: Terry ("Bagman") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted February 24, 2011 Share #15 Posted February 24, 2011 Terry that was a real tough choice having to settle for a new one dated 1940 - 41. My great sympathy to you for having probably the nicest of these FA pouches I have ever seen. It is super. Now I have seen a grand total of two dated samples and all in your single post. Thank you! I have a Grenade Vest with that same 40 - 41 date stamp. It is a marked difference from all the thousands of WW1 vests available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Flage Guy Posted February 25, 2011 Share #16 Posted February 25, 2011 Ditto what Craig said- that is the most un-improvable Field Dressing Pouch I've seen, ever. Amazing!! Craig, you're the first one I've ever known besides me who has one of the Marine Corps Grenade Vests with the "40-41" stamp. Don't have any pics of it, but also have a '44-dated example, shown below along with the common 1918 Vest so the difference you mentioned can be seen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted February 25, 2011 Share #17 Posted February 25, 2011 Here is my 40 - 41 beside a WW1 version. The WW2 USMC version is on the right. I hadn't seen a 1944 before. Very nice find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share #18 Posted February 25, 2011 'Flage and Craig-- Count me among those fortunate enough to have one of the Marine Grenade Vests stamped "DQP., 1940-1941". Here are the auction pics, which are not too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwnuttycollector Posted February 25, 2011 Share #19 Posted February 25, 2011 NICE! And to think that I was happy to find a '43 cartridge belt with a standard carlisle pouch (dated '41) with a 1918 dated NAVY Bauer unopened bandage, Oh yeah - the belt was full of '43 dated 30.06 rds on stripper clips. Ebay was great several years ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APO472 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #20 Posted February 25, 2011 So was Mr. Jack's in Marietta. I plucked out a few of the dated FA ones in the late 80's and took them to Chambersburg in the early 90's. They didn't last an hour at 10.00 each. Don't regret not having any of them today, just hope the folks that got them enjoy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Boghots Posted February 25, 2011 Share #21 Posted February 25, 2011 Fantastic FA & grenade pouches, all :thumbsup: Best regards, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Flage Guy Posted February 26, 2011 Share #22 Posted February 26, 2011 'Flage and Craig-- Count me among those fortunate enough to have one of the Marine Grenade Vests stamped "DQP., 1940-1941". Here are the auction pics, which are not too good. :w00t: That's 3!!!! :w00t: What beauties :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Boghots Posted February 26, 2011 Share #23 Posted February 26, 2011 Terry started such a great thread here, and his "Type 3" and "Type 4" designations work just fine for me. :thumbsup: So instead of starting a new thread, I thought I'd backtrack to a "Type 2", and maybe someone else can post a "Type ". If that happens, Terry's topic and thread may be something that can be pinned for future reference :think: Anyway, my "Type 2" is salty, but still solid. It came from my uncle's grouping, who joined the 9th Marines at Camp Elliott just prior to the formation of the 3rd Division. He carried it until discharge in late 1945. There are faint traces of a stenciled marking inside the flap; positioned in the right area for a DQP marking, but I'm unable to say for sure that's what it is. The WW1 Navy Carlisle is also original to the pouch. Best regards to all, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Boghots Posted February 26, 2011 Share #24 Posted February 26, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Boghots Posted February 26, 2011 Share #25 Posted February 26, 2011 Like I said, the markings are faint. I'm sure a better photographer could improve on my work :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now