USN Kabar - marked on the guard

[Bob Hudson]

I picked up close to 20 fighting knives and bayonets yesterday and once again realized how confusing is the world of WWII fighting knives. There were a couple of PAL's (35 and 37) a Cammilus or two, a Robeson, and this Ka-Bar which I have tried in vain to to learn about. It has simply "Ka-Bar" and "USN" on the guard, no Mark 2 or any such thing.

 

 

 

[Greg Robinson]

And it also has a peened pommel suggesting early production for one having guard markings. M H Cole, in his "Book III" of US military edged weapons illustrates a Navy Mk 2 with markings same as your knife.

 

Greg

[Bob Hudson]

And it also has a peened pommel suggesting early production for one having guard markings. M H Cole, in his "Book III" of US military edged weapons illustrates a Navy Mk 2 with markings same as your knife.

 

Greg

 

Thanks. Did any piece of gear have so many variations in markings in such a short time as did the WWII USN MK2 knives?

[Greg Robinson]

Thanks. Did any piece of gear have so many variations in markings in such a short time as did the WWII USN MK2 knives?

 

YES!!! The WW2 Navy Mark 1 was built by many makers and it seems like every one of them took liberties with the contract specs. I once heard how many variations there were of the Mk 1 but don't recall what it was other than it was a surprising large number.

[BOB K. RKSS]

This knife is NOT early prodution (1943), or WWII; as all variations of "early" KA-BAR were Blade Marked. Guard marking was begun in later 1944, but the Crossguards were Curved Up at each end. This knife looks to have a Strait Crossguard (that has been bent on one side), & Strait Crossguards indicate Post-WWII (Korean War) production. Also, a factory KA-BAR would not have a sloppy pommel rectangle cut, & a rough peened tang: the way this knife appears to be. Sorry, Looks to be a "put together" with different parts.

[Bob Hudson]

This knife is NOT early prodution (1943), or WWII; as all variations of "early" KA-BAR were Blade Marked. Guard marking was begun in later 1944, but the Crossguards were Curved Up at each end. This knife looks to have a Strait Crossguard (that has been bent on one side), & Strait Crossguards indicate Post-WWII (Korean War) production. Also, a factory KA-BAR would not have a sloppy pommel rectangle cut, & a rough peened tang: the way this knife appears to be. Sorry, Looks to be a "put together" with different parts.

 

Earlier today I ran across something seemed to indicate that guard marks were done twice: the first only briefly when it was thought that blade stampings might be weakening the blade. That didn't last too long before they went back to the blade stamping and then later returned the guard marks. I'll see if I can find that reference.

 

Some guy who's been actively collecting military knives for years called me earlier today and offered $50 for the knife which he said is in poor condition but has what he called rare guard marks. I accepted the offer

[Greg Robinson]

The Navy wrote a specification change sometime in 1944 moving the markings to the guard. Far as I know this was only done once.

 

What you got there is the scarce "straight line markings" KA-BAR. I didn't catch that earlier or else I'd have tried to buy it myself.

 

Greg

[Greg Robinson]

This knife is NOT early prodution (1943), or WWII; as all variations of "early" KA-BAR were Blade Marked. Guard marking was begun in later 1944, but the Crossguards were Curved Up at each end. This knife looks to have a Strait Crossguard (that has been bent on one side), & Strait Crossguards indicate Post-WWII (Korean War) production. Also, a factory KA-BAR would not have a sloppy pommel rectangle cut, & a rough peened tang: the way this knife appears to be. Sorry, Looks to be a "put together" with different parts.

 

It's a wartime Navy Mk 2 with the mid war feature of thick heavy guard peened on to a rectangular blank shank tip. The guard is just bent a bit and perhaps the peen is dented but you can see the original factory sunburst pattern on it. There were no Navy Mk 2's or Marine 1219c2's made during the Korean War. After 1945 production of this pattern didn't resume until the 1960 production by UTICA.

[Bob Hudson]

The Navy wrote a specification change sometime in 1944 moving the markings to the guard. Far as I know this was only done once.

 

What you got there is the scarce "straight line markings" KA-BAR. I didn't catch that earlier or else I'd have tried to buy it myself.

 

Greg

 

Well I can put you in touch with the guy who bought it from me - he'll probably have it for sale next week at twice what I sold it for

 

What is meant by "straight line markings"?

 

Here's another photo with a better view of the marks:

 

[Greg Robinson]

The typical maker mark on the guard marked Mk 2 is stamped on two lines:

 

KA-

BAR

 

And it usually has the model name on the other end of the guard, also on two lines instead of just being stamped "USN". I think they're normally marked "USN / Mk 2". Not a big deal other than it's an uncommon variation.

[bayonetman]

According to one collector I talked with, this type marking is the first type guard marking. Then shortly the KA-BAR and USN / MARK 2 and then the common KA-/BAR and USN / MARK 2.

 

United States Military Knives Collector's Guide (Silvey and Boyd) shows it as number 172 and lists it as RARE.

 

Had I seen it on Ebay I would have tossed in a bid (even in this condition) as I am partial to the USN Mark 2 knives, and I have never before seen this variation for sale.

[gunbarrel]

FS, I hate to say it...but you should have held on to that one!

[Bob Hudson]

FS, I hate to say it...but you should have held on to that one!

 

 

I don't really collect knives although I have a couple of WWII Ka-bars and Robesons hanging on the wall in my studio, but even those drive my wife crazy since we have an eight year old and she's convinced he wants nothing more than to play catch with them. I try to explain to her that when I was perhaps 10 years old I use to wear my dad's old Navy Ka-bar on my belt when I went to Boy Scout outings. I've got a Robeson machete in the garage (typical RS MK2 machete with the wooden handle in bad shape) and I will probably get rid of that to make her happy. She does tolerate it when I wear the Robeson Mark 2 knife when we go hiking in mountain lion country. I'm glad this Ka-bar is going to someone who probably knows and appreciates knives (and bargains )

[Salvage Sailor]

The typical maker mark on the guard marked Mk 2 is stamped on two lines:

 

KA-

BAR

 

And it usually has the model name on the other end of the guard, also on two lines instead of just being stamped "USN". I think they're normally marked "USN / Mk 2". Not a big deal other than it's an uncommon variation.

 

Like this one. This is my fathers Ka-Bar which he used during his USN service, and then passed on to me & I used it during my service.

[Greg Robinson]

They made these in large quantities during WW2 and so had quite a few left in inventory at the end of the war, especially those guard marked knives made in 1944-1945. This is why production of this pattern knife did not resume until 1960.

[Guest outlander]

Like this one. This is my fathers Ka-Bar which he used during his USN service, and then passed on to me & I used it during my service.

 

I have one just like that one that I was issued when I was a rescue swimmer in the mid-seventies. We all took one look at it and said, "You want us to jump in the water with this?" Cooler heads prevailed and they got us some stainless dive knives. But they never took the Ka-Bars back.

[Tom @ Snake River]

Here is my newly purchased USN Kabar with the marking on the tang.

 

Tom @ Snake River