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Nickel EGA on Blue Dress Cover

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This cover came in a grouping ID'd to SgtMaj. Young. It is ink stamped - WM. H. HORSTMANN CO. PHILADELPHIA, CONTRACT JUNE 10th, 1907. Does documentation exist supporting the use of a nickel EGA being worn on these covers? Thanks in advance.

 

Chuck

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There have been no regs found to date or changes to regs that support the wearing of the nickel EGAs. They are not made with posts and all hats starting in 1897 had grommets for posts. EGAs with posts did not arrive until 1898 though. Does not make sense for them to be worn, but it could have happened.


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A1C Matthew Seidler, Delta Company, 466th EOD killed in action. 05 Jan 12 at 1600L while conducting mounted route clearance patrols in Helmand Province, Afghanistan. He turned 24 two days before his death. Cousin, Soldier, Hero.

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I think it was added. Does it have prongs? Same with the Good Conduct ribbon...it just screams add on. You expect a device or two for a SgtMaj. Makes me doubt the rest of the ribbons as well


-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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I think it was added. Does it have prongs? Same with the Good Conduct ribbon...it just screams add on. You expect a device or two for a SgtMaj. Makes me doubt the rest of the ribbons as well

 

The ribbons are being discussed on another thread.

 

Chuck


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There have been no regs found to date or changes to regs that support the wearing of the nickel EGAs. They are not made with posts and all hats starting in 1897 had grommets for posts. EGAs with posts did not arrive until 1898 though. Does not make sense for them to be worn, but it could have happened.

 

Thanks Alec... It makes no sense to me either. I'll wait for the rest of the grouping to come out of storage before I change it. Susposedly, there are documents and photographs. I won't hold my breath, but ya never know what might come up.

 

Chuck


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easy way to tell...is there a metal bit between the globe and bottom fluke? Excess that is unsnipped?

 

A lot of modern strikes are being made from the original dies...and that flaw is usually there, along with being prong backed


-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
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easy way to tell...is there a metal bit between the globe and bottom fluke? Excess that is unsnipped?

 

A lot of modern strikes are being made from the original dies...and that flaw is usually there, along with being prong backed

 

It's clear in that area Brig, and it is pronged backed. I don't know if the nickel EGA is original or not. I do know that it's coming off, and will be replaced by a P1908 Gilt Brass EGA appropriate for this cover. Anybody got an extra to sell?

 

Chuck


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I have the same cover as yours that I purchased almost 40 years ago at a antique store in Virgina (there were two others) and all of them had the same nickel emblem on them. I like you decided to replace the emblem but to this day I have always wondered, if i did the right thing.

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I have the same cover as yours that I purchased almost 40 years ago at a antique store in Virgina (there were two others) and all of them had the same nickel emblem on them. I like you decided to replace the emblem but to this day I have always wondered, if i did the right thing.

 

Ya, I know what you mean. I am going to hang onto it just in case something comes up, but will still change it out.

 

Chuck


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I've got one of these too. Here's mine for comparison. Same sliver EGA and all. Was told it too was bogus, but I wonder if there are so many around, are they "fakes" or maybe, if not regulation, were they made for a movie cast or something like that? Or perhaps a local command authorized use of the nickel EGAs because they couldn't get the gold finish ones?

 

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I've got one of these too. Here's mine for comparison. Same sliver EGA and all. Was told it too was bogus, but I wonder if there are so many around, are they "fakes" or maybe, if not regulation, were they made for a movie cast or something like that? Or perhaps a local command authorized use of the nickel EGAs because they couldn't get the gold finish ones?

 

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From what I have read on the Forum, these ega's are associated with shoulderboards. They seem o have been widely reproduced by Bannerman, Stokes, ect into the 1970s. Made for collectors. In Alec's book, all examples of this cap have the brass ega. Here's a link http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=9168 jeff


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Does anyone have an answer on WHY these turn up like this? Was there a faker in the 1970s putting these repro-EGAs on hats to sell at shows or something?


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EGAs were issued individually as property and each Marine was accountable for theirs. It is possible that upon end of enlistment they could take uniform but not EGA and had an option of taking a nickel one since they were no longer being used in any quantity.

If these examples are all coming from vets that makes more sense.

 

As small as Corps was back then what are chances so many examples from one unit who wore nickel EGAs are showing up.


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A1C Matthew Seidler, Delta Company, 466th EOD killed in action. 05 Jan 12 at 1600L while conducting mounted route clearance patrols in Helmand Province, Afghanistan. He turned 24 two days before his death. Cousin, Soldier, Hero.

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I've got one of these too. Here's mine for comparison. Same sliver EGA and all. Was told it too was bogus, but I wonder if there are so many around, are they "fakes" or maybe, if not regulation, were they made for a movie cast or something like that? Or perhaps a local command authorized use of the nickel EGAs because they couldn't get the gold finish ones?

 

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D. does your cover have a gromet hole? s/f D.



The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Hard to tell with the fabric inside bunched up around the prongs, but there does appear to be a grommet hole. Not sure if Chuck's has one or not, but would guess it does.

 

Mine's marked the same way Chuck's is too -- only mine says 1906.

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It just seems to me that there are multiple examples of hats with similar markings, bearing the prong-back EGA instead of a gold screwback one. To write them all off as fakes seems kind of dismissive, especially since the hats with these EGAs on are all pretty much the same from what I've seen. Unless there was one faker who had a few dozen of the same hat and a few dozen of the same EGA and didn't mind flooding the market with the same product, there's got to be another explanation. If not USMC, I suggest perhaps it was for a movie or stage production or something?


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This maybe pure speculation on my part but I believe the reason for alot of these era uniforms and caps survive is due in part to local brass bands, theater/movie productions, and costume depts. You will find alot of these 1905 uniforms stripped of their USMC buttons and reused for the latter mentioned individuals. It may also be concievable that this model cap foud many uses for actors playing period cops, as this style was very similiar. This may, in part, explain the missing ega and why a collector would add a very common found pronged example. Whether these pronged examples are repros, restrikes, NOS, and if they were ever correct for wear on the cap, I'll yeild to higher authorities. Never say never, is always good to keep in mind. There are also tons of USMC bell crowns to M.1937s that sport incorrect egas. jeff


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Hard to tell with the fabric inside bunched up around the prongs, but there does appear to be a grommet hole. Not sure if Chuck's has one or not, but would guess it does.

 

Mine's marked the same way Chuck's is too -- only mine says 1906.

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post-1424-1295889028.jpg

 

It just seems to me that there are multiple examples of hats with similar markings, bearing the prong-back EGA instead of a gold screwback one. To write them all off as fakes seems kind of dismissive, especially since the hats with these EGAs on are all pretty much the same from what I've seen. Unless there was one faker who had a few dozen of the same hat and a few dozen of the same EGA and didn't mind flooding the market with the same product, there's got to be another explanation. If not USMC, I suggest perhaps it was for a movie or stage production or something?

 

Mine does have the grommet hole for the EGA. It also has a nice shadow of where a gilt brass EGA was tightened on it long ago. The nickel EGA was snuggly placed on this cover, but I don't think it made this impression. This thread has gotten very interesting. I'm not sure if I would completely rule out the nickel EGA on these covers now. All we need is some hard documentation.

 

Chuck


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This maybe pure speculation on my part but I believe the reason for alot of these era uniforms and caps survive is due in part to local brass bands, theater/movie productions, and costume depts. You will find alot of these 1905 uniforms stripped of their USMC buttons and reused for the latter mentioned individuals. It may also be concievable that this model cap foud many uses for actors playing period cops, as this style was very similiar. This may, in part, explain the missing ega and why a collector would add a very common found pronged example. Whether these pronged examples are repros, restrikes, NOS, and if they were ever correct for wear on the cap, I'll yeild to higher authorities. Never say never, is always good to keep in mind. There are also tons of USMC bell crowns to M.1937s that sport incorrect egas. jeff

 

If that's the case, wouldn't these folks put their own markings inside of the uniforms?

 

Chuck


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That's a good point Chuck. Part of my speculation is in part due to seeing, in particular, military dress uniforms being offered for retail in a costume shop in Boston, many moons ago. This shop catered to students and city theater groups. I have also seen about 4 of the same model jacket that you have pictured for sale. All in good condition, stripped of the buttons. My feeling was that they could have been stripped of insignia before being sold as surplus? :think: jeff


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http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=8096

* I found this 4 year-old thread searching for something else entirely, but noticed the hat in the first picture is described as having prong backs as well. The hat itself is the later model with red piping and he says there's a brass finish, but still a prong-backed EGA.

 

Not sure if that helps in any way with the discussion here, but figured it couldn't hurt tossing it into the mix. :thumbsup:


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post-1424-1298526942.jpg

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This is a photo I've had in my collection for some time -- an old time studio portrait. I know the picture is black and white, but the EGA looks like it's silver / nickel in color. It's not as dark as the buttons, which are brass / gold colored. Hard to say for sure, but it does look like the EGA is a lighter shade.


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Saw this today at the National Museum of the Marine Corps in Quantico.

Nickel EGA on a blue cover.

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I see the metal defect on the bottom fluke...commonly attributed to modern striked on original die pieces...

 

haven't been to that museum, but I know the Parris Island has a few restrikes/modern strikes in place of originals. Wouldn't surprise me for the Quantico one to be doing it as well...


-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

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