Last Cavalry Charge?

[Lancer21]

The current header to the discussion board makes the statement that the Battle of Morong of 16 January 1942 was the last US Horse Cavalry Charge. Lead by Lt. Edwin P. Ramsey, two horse-mounted columns of the 26th Cavalry (Philippine Scouts) rode into Morong, where they fought advancing Japanese infantrymen.

 

While I have the utmost respect for their bravery and service I'm wondering does this serve as the real "Last Cavalry Charge" of the US Army?

I only ask as a point of discussion and not to slight any of these brave troops and their outstanding accomplishments.

 

So what constitutes a US Cavalry Charge?

The last US Cavalry Charge of US Cavalry Troops lead by US Officers was on 5 May 1916, when the 11th US CAV charge against the Poncho Villa banditos and supporters in Mexico. "The column advanced onto the village to be found out by guards. The bugler sounded and with guidon flying on high the charge began. The troopers entered Ojo Azules with pistols firing, bugle sounding out orders, commands being screamed, and the thunder of hoofs all putting fear into the hearts of the enemy." This would proved to be the last mounted charge in regular US Cavalry history.

or

The 5th Special Forces Group, with North Alliance Soldiers during the opening stages of operations in Afghanistan, Oct 2001... "We have witnessed the horse cavalry bounding over-watch from spur to spur to attack Taliban strong points -- the last several kilometers under mortar, artillery ... and (sniper) fire. They have killed over 125 Taliban, while losing only eight," said the Oct. 25 message.

This last case being US Officers leading foreign troops. So, what is the last Cavalry Charge? I welcome your thoughts.

[kjones5452]

Who did the print in the middle?

[kjones5452]

Who did the print in the middle?

Don Stiver's

Googled 11th Cavalry Mexico, came right up.

[12A54]

As an old Cavalryman, I'm just sayin that riding pack mules for convenience doesn't constitute a "Cavalry charge". As innovative as it was.

[J_Andrews]

Are you implying that the Philippine Scouts were NOT U. S. (United States) Cavalry? Or that Ramsey was NOT a U.S. Cavalry officer? If so, it would be a shame.

[kjones5452]

Special Forces on horseback does not a cavalry troop make.

[12A54]

Are you implying that the Philippine Scouts were NOT U. S. (United States) Cavalry? Or that Ramsey was NOT a U.S. Cavalry officer? If so, it would be a shame.

Nope. The more recent action. My vote would be for Ramsey.

[Lancer21]

The 26th Cavalry (Philippine Scouts) had US Cavalry Officers and Philippine troops that were not US citizens. So my question for consideration is "What constitutes a US Cavalry Charge?"

 

A. If it is US Officers leading the charge of troops under their command regardless of their nationality then one might draw a different conclusion.

B. If it is US Cavalry Officers leading US Cavalry troops than that leads to totally different conclusion.

 

Again, this discussion is only rhetorical. The bravery and accomplishments of the 26th Cavalry is to be commended and honored. I only ask for the sake of learning and discussion. Thank you for your consideration.

[VeeVee]

The 26th Cavalry was US Army, not Philippine Commonwealth Army. The enlisted Filipino scouts were like the British Gurkhas. The Philippines was US territory during those days same as Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and Guam. If by definition of US citizen you mean they couldn't vote in the US election, then it's like saying that Ira Hayes who was one of the marine flag raisers at Iwo Jima doesn't count as a "US" marine because Pima Indians were not considered US citizens back then... just saying. The PS were every bit US GI as the 442nd were.

 

And as far as horse back "charges" go... some may say a recon unit on horseback in Italy did a charge too later in the war or some special forces guys in Afghanistan who happened to be on horseback did a charge... but they weren't really the old school combat cavalrymen. The 26th was the last old US horse cavalry unit trained as such to see combat. They were the last to respond to commands like "Pistols up!" or "Form as foragers!" and the actual "Charge!" command.

 

As additional trivia, the 26th Cavalry troopers were the first to use the M1 Garand in ground combat at Lingayen gulf. They were issued this weapon in 1941 because they were US Army and sure to get hit by Japan first. Incidentally, all the infantry regiments of the US Army's Philippine Division (two Scout regiments {45th, 57th, and one all-American, the 31st Infantry) were armed with Garands. The Philippine Division was an un-numbered army infantry division but re-designated the 12th Infantry division after the war.

[Andrei]

If by definition of US citizen you mean they couldn't vote in the US election, then it's like saying that Ira Hayes who was one of the marine flag raisers at Iwo Jima doesn't count as a "US" marine because Pima Indians were not considered US citizens back then... just saying.

What was the qualication back in those days to be a full privilege US citizen with voting rights ? Just curious, I am from France.

[VeeVee]

What was the qualication back in those days to be a full privilege US citizen with voting rights ? Just curious, I am from France.

 

http://www.infoplease.com/timelines/voting.html

 

Maybe my Ira Hayes analogy is misplaced because according to this the American Indians were allowed to vote in 1924. But the intent was to ask the question on why the original poster would think that the 26th Cavalry does not rate to be considered US Army even if it was indeed organic US Army... just because the enlisted men were ethnic Filipinos?

 

The benefit of the doubt I can give is that he didn't know that the 26th was US Army and mistook them for the reservists that made up the Philippine Commonwealth Army at that time.

[Andrei]

http://www.infoplease.com/timelines/voting.html

 

Maybe my Ira Hayes analogy is misplaced because according to this the American Indians were allowed to vote in 1924. But the intent was to ask the question on why the original poster would think that the 26th Cavalry does not rate to be considered US Army even if it was indeed organic US Army... just because the enlisted men were ethnic Filipinos?

 

The benefit of the doubt I can give is that he didn't know that the 26th was US Army and mistook them for the reservists that made up the Philippine Commonwealth Army at that time.

Thanks for the link.

[teufelhunde.ret]

Special Forces on horseback does not a cavalry troop make.

:twothumbup:

[Lancer21]

The 26th Cavalry was US Army, not Philippine Commonwealth Army. The enlisted Filipino scouts were like the British Gurkhas. The Philippines was US territory during those days same as Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and Guam. If by definition of US citizen you mean they couldn't vote in the US election, then it's like saying that Ira Hayes who was one of the marine flag raisers at Iwo Jima doesn't count as a "US" marine because Pima Indians were not considered US citizens back then... just saying. The PS were every bit US GI as the 442nd were.

 

And as far as horse back "charges" go... some may say a recon unit on horseback in Italy did a charge too later in the war or some special forces guys in Afghanistan who happened to be on horseback did a charge... but they weren't really the old school combat cavalrymen. The 26th was the last old US horse cavalry unit trained as such to see combat. They were the last to respond to commands like "Pistols up!" or "Form as foragers!" and the actual "Charge!" command.

 

As additional trivia, the 26th Cavalry troopers were the first to use the M1 Garand in ground combat at Lingayen gulf. They were issued this weapon in 1941 because they were US Army and sure to get hit by Japan first. Incidentally, all the infantry regiments of the US Army's Philippine Division (two Scout regiments {45th, 57th, and one all-American, the 31st Infantry) were armed with Garands. The Philippine Division was an un-numbered army infantry division but re-designated the 12th Infantry division after the war.

 

hmmmm... So the Gurkas charging (on foot) into the Argentine forces during the Falklands campaign while in British uniforms and with British officers are not considered adding to the honors and history of the Gurka fighting forces but only the British?

My understanding is that the Filipino scouts where trained in the Philippines, meaning that they never went through Basic Training and Combat Arms Training with their American counter-parts as individuals or as a unit the way that those sighted above did.

The point that the Cavalry commands executed during a combat engagement would seem to be a logical position for consideration of the original question “What constitutes a US Cavalry Charge?”

Thanks for all the input, I guess that was my reason for posting to see what the opinions are on the subject. Good conversation and information.

 

Thanks again,

 

Lancer21

[J_Andrews]

Regarding the TANGENT raised about US citizenship (as reflected in eligibility to vote):

 

IIRC 25% of US Army enlisted men in WWI were FOREIGN BORN. I doubt that more than a slim minority of them had managed to become US citizens before being CONSCRIPTED. I suspect more than a few non-citizens are among winners of the CMH.....

 

Point: Being a US CITIZEN has no bearing on status as a member of the US armed forces.

[VeeVee]

My understanding is that the Filipino scouts where trained in the Philippines, meaning that they never went through Basic Training and Combat Arms Training with their American counter-parts as individuals or as a unit the way that those sighted above did.

 

I think I understand where the confusion is and where you're coming from. Just to clarify information... the Philippine Scouts were US Army in everything, equipment, training, officers, tactics and procedures, bureaucracy, supply chain, and combined arms. The only difference is that the enlisted men were Filipinos and were paid half of what Americans were paid. The Scouts had full infantry regiments, a cavalry regiment, field artillery battalions, coast artillery regiments, engineer battalion, quartermaster, signal, and medical units. They were integral and organic part of the US Army at that time. Representatives of their units travelled to the US to compete in army marksmanship contests, and even participated in the Louisiana Maneuvers.

 

If by your criteria of not having wholly trained in the continental US, makes them not US Army, the all-American 31st Infantry regiment which was part of the Philippine Division would not be considered "US" because they were formed in the Philippines and was never US-based up to that point. Their GI's were recruited stateside but shipped to the Philippines for boot camp training at Fort Mckinley. So did the American 59th and 60th Coast Artillery regiments who went through their basic training at Fort Mills in Corregidor. Now depending on the Scout unit, all of them went through the same training at Fort McKinley, Fort Mills, or Fort Stotsenberg for the cavalry. And they certainly trained with the American 31st Infantry on division level maneuvers. The 31st would have called for fire support from the Scout batteries, would have served us friendly or opposing force during field problems. The Scout signal co. would have laid out communication wires, the Scout engineers would have dug the same defenses and laid the same mines as any stateside unit, and so on. Same uniform, equipment, chain of command, same training, and so on... (except less pay).

 

-------------

Just for additional flavor and in the interest of buying the Scouts some respect and understanding, here's an excerpt from the book Bataan, Uncensored, written by Col. E.B. Miller, commander of the 194th Tank Battalion. Although his excerpt is specifically about the 45th Infantry men, not the cavalry. It was in reference to the last desperate days of Bataan. What he had to say about the Scouts.

 

------------------

The Philippine Scouts were doing the best they could. Japanese mortar fire was heavy. The Scouts had to take it with none to throw back. During the day, I had the opportunity - and honor - of witnessing the mettle of these Scouts.

 

After the battle had opened in the morning, Colonel Doyle had sent a patrol of Scouts, out to the west, to make contact with our forces. This patrol never returned. All in all, five patrols were sent out in that direction during the day. When the first patrol failed to return, everyone knew what had happened.

 

As each succeeding group was called up to receive instructions and orders for patrol duty. every last man took his orders with no trace of reluctance or fear whatsoever. There was only explicit obedience in the job they had to perform. They knew the seriousness of the situation which confronted them, and I marveled at their soldierly qualities. They knew that death undoubtedly awaited them, but the last patrol went just as eagerly as the first.

 

All during this day, many wounded Scouts were brought to the rear. Not once did I hear one whimper of pain or an utterance of complaint.

 

<Later in the chapter>

 

Two tanks were placed at the head of the column. Scouts were sent out in front, on foot, to act as "feelers." The 45th had marched a long distance the day before over mountainous terrain, had fought all this day, and now were on a mission that would have been rough, even for fresh troops. Once again the mettle of these superb soldiers came to the front. During that night, and the events which followed, I never heard one word of complaint, only extreme attention to duty!

 

<after an ambush>

 

...Meanwhile, the Scouts had formed a line to our rear and fired blindly in the direction of the Japs to cover our withdrawal. That is the only thing that saved us. Their actions that night would have been more than a credit to the best trained and bravest soldiers in the world.

 

...Under cover of the fire being delivered by the Scouts, we turned the vehicles, which had accompanied us, to the west. The general withdrawal of the column was covered by our one tank.

 

...By now, the physical condition of the Scouts we had with us, was near complete exhaustion. On the return march, we saw quite a number of Philippine Army soldiers who had thrown away their rifles and were evacuating to the rear. The Scouts were different. Often one would drop in his tracks. It was only by shame that we could get their exhausted bodies to stumble on. We would look at them and say: "Are you Philippine Army or are you Scout?" Without exception, they would stand as erect as possible - and then plod on. I love them and I'm not ashamed of it!

[J_Andrews]

There was no such thing as consolidated "Basic Training", at least until 1939. New enlistees were sent to their Regiments -- whether overseasw or Stateside -- the Regiment trained them. Some Regiments had all their companies send the new guys to one location, where regimental-level instructors and staff did the training. Others conducted "The School of the Soldier" at the Company level.

 

After September 1939, things began changing, as understrength units were expanded (more people assigned and inactive elements resurrected) and the influx of new weapons and equipment made getting new guys trained more complicated. This was especially true in forming the Armored Divs and new Air Corps units/bases. The next up-tick was the draft, from Nov 1940. Even then, much "basic" was accomplished within Divisions, if not within Regts.

 

For example, before Sep 39, there were only a handful of Battalion HQs to be found in the active Infantry -- due to budget and manning ceilings. Companies often had just two platoons, and one or both of those might lack officers, with platoon sgts as ACTING PLs.

[Wailuna]

The Philippine Scouts were authorized by an Act of Congress and these forces were incorporated into the Regular of Army of the United States Army. Here is a concise early history of the Philippine Scouts taken from a modern Department of Defense directive (DoD Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 1, April 2000):

 

The Act of February 2, 1901 (reference (n)), as amended by the Act of May 16, 1908 (reference (aa)), authorized the President of the United States to organize a military component to be known as the Philippine Scouts and make it a part of the Regular Army.

 

A. The total number of enlisted men was limited to 12,000 voluntary enlisted natives of the Philippine Islands. The pay and allowances of whatever nature and kind authorized were to be fixed by the Secretary of the Army, not to exceed or be of classes other than those authorized enlisted men of the Regular Army. Retirement eligibility was the same as for enlisted men of the Regular Army.

 

B. Officers initially were selected from the Regular Army on provisional appointments. Effective July 1, 1920, all officers who were citizens of the United States, if qualified, were recommissioned in the Regular service and, if not recommissioned, continued to serve under their commissions as officers of the Philippine Scouts. Officers later were selected from citizens of the Philippine Islands, appointed in the grade of second lieutenant. Officers were entitled to the same pay, privileges, and retirement benefits authorized officers of like grade and service of the Regular Army.

 

Along with the rest of the United States Army, the Philippine Scouts were reorganized by the Act of June 4, 1920. In the early 1920s, the existing separate companies and battalions of Philippine Scouts were reorganized into Regular Army regiments: The 43rd, 45th, and 57th Infantry Regiments (Philippine Scouts), the 24th and 25th Field Artillery Regiments (Philippine Scouts), and the 26th Cavalry Regiment (Philippine Scouts) and supporting units. The Philippine Division was constituted and organized in mid-1921 as a Regular Army Infantry division (much later redesigned 12th Infantry Division) to which the forgoing Philippine Scout Infantry and Field Artillery Regiments were assigned during all or part of the interwar period.

 

As for the question opening this thread: Yes, the 26th Cavalry Regiment (PS) was a duly constituted unit organization of the United States Army and, yes, Philippine Scouts were enlisted into the Regular Army of the United States.

[124cav]

no mention of the 10th recon troop in Italy

[VeeVee]

no mention of the 10th recon troop in Italy

 

I was referring to them when I mentioned this.

 

And as far as horse back "charges" go... some may say a recon unit on horseback in Italy did a charge too later in the war or some special forces guys in Afghanistan who happened to be on horseback did a charge... but they weren't really the old school combat cavalrymen. The 26th was the last old US horse cavalry unit trained as such to see combat. They were the last to respond to commands like "Pistols up!" or "Form as foragers!" and the actual "Charge!" command.

[flyer333555]

The 26th Cavalry (Philippine Scouts) had US Cavalry Officers and Philippine troops that were not US citizens. So my question for consideration is "What constitutes a US Cavalry Charge?"

 

A. If it is US Officers leading the charge of troops under their command regardless of their nationality then one might draw a different conclusion.

B. If it is US Cavalry Officers leading US Cavalry troops than that leads to totally different conclusion.

 

Others have already dismissed some of your assumptions. Like you apparently assumed that soldiers previous to 1940 had basic training before joining their unit.

 

Even though another member pointed out that in 1939 as the year that soldiers started receiving basic training before joining their units, there is the account of members of the 60th Coast Artillery (Anti-Aircraft) in Corregidor that stated their members coming out to see and hear 3-inch guns firing for the first time was when the 60th CA was ordered to fire against Japanese air attacks. Because, again, these new members never received basic or advanced training before joining their unit of assignment. The Philippino soldier's bravery and mettle against the Japanese extended, not only to the cavalry unit but to others as well. In the web site discussing the 60th CA (AA) there is an account of an American soldier finding Philippino Scouts of one of the two Philippino Scouts coast artillery regiments dead by their field piece, a towed 155 mm gun.

 

The four Coast Artillery regiments at Corregidor were the 59th CA (Harbor Defense), 60th CA (AA), 91st CA (PS), and 92nd CA (PS). The first two were enlisted and officers Americans. The last two were enlisted and a few officers Philippino but most officers Americans.

 

Corregidor.org online histories here.

 

The book Guarding the US and Its Outposts Link Here! lists some of the problems regarding the United States had when they wanted to replace American soldiers with Puerto Ricans in countries that had already accepted and entered treaties regarding American soldiers. Several times the US State Department had to renegotiate treaties with Panama, Barbados, Virgin Islands, to name just a few. Yet at the time Puerto Ricans were already United States residents by the Jones Act in 1917!

 

So would you have excluded Puerto Ricans, based on your messages, as being non-US citizens because Puerto Ricans did not vote in US elections?

 

By 1944, the US troops guarding the forts, guns, and military installations in Trinidad, Barbados, the Panama Canal, and other such islands in the Caribean included a sizable portion of Puerto Ricans. These units were, like the Philippine Scouts, US officers in command of enlisted Puerto Ricans.

 

 

Luis Ramos

 

By the way, nice thread. I like the responses!

 

:thumbsup:

 

I almost forgot...

 

I remember watching a film, I think it had as part of the title the word "hero." It may have been through Corregidor.org in a link. It was a production of a Philippine group regarding their fight against the Japanese. One of the accounts, and reenactments in the film state how one sergeant stood in front of a charging Japanese officer, sword drawn, reloading his revolver, and killing the Japanese. Forgot the name...

[flyer333555]

IIRC 25% of US Army enlisted men in WWI were FOREIGN BORN. I doubt that more than a slim minority of them had managed to become US citizens before being CONSCRIPTED. I suspect more than a few non-citizens are among winners of the CMH.....

 

Point: Being a US CITIZEN has no bearing on status as a member of the US armed forces.

 

It is still the case... I do not know the proportion, but every now and then I see photos of a member of the US military in a naturalization ceremony in full uniform in front of the judge taking their citizenship oath...

 

Luis Ramos

[Wailuna]

According to a report issued in 2005, there were approximately 35,000 "Legal Permanent Residents" (LPRs) enlisted in the active components of U.S. Armed Forces, with an additional 12,000 serving in the Reserve or National Guard, and there were approximately 8,000 new LPR enlistments each year. In addition, male LPRs age 18 to 25 are required to register with the Selective Service.

 

 

LPRs_in_Military.pdf