USMC Shoulder Boards

[teufelhunde.ret]

Just came across these in a finished by it now auction. Have never seen these before? Anyone care to share some information on these. s/f Darrell

[Brig]

yes! these are model 1872 Officer Shoulder boards. possibly NCOs, I'm not sure. Here is one I bought off The Collector's Guild last year and is currently in my collection. I'd post more pics, but it's in storage back home at the moment. I'd copy and paste, but he doesn't allow it... http://www.germanmilitaria.com/OtherNation...tos/C04154.html

[Bob Hudson]

yes! these are model 1872 Officer Shoulder boards. possibly NCOs, I'm not sure. Here is one I bought off The Collector's Guild last year and is currently in my collection. I'd post more pics, but it's in storage back home at the moment. I'd copy and paste, but he doesn't allow it... http://www.germanmilitaria.com/OtherNation...tos/C04154.html

 

I think they call these "shoulder knots".

[teufelhunde.ret]

Tim, just pulled the item description down from that site, very interesting piece. s/f Darrell

 

C04154 M1872 USMC OFFICER'S SHOULDER BOARD. A dress shoulder board, often referred to as a "shoulder paddle," introduced into the U.S. Army in 1872, with the U.S. Marine Corps being the last of the services to adopt it, in the late 1870s. In 1881 it was reworked such that its gold wire cords had a smoother weave, which was unofficially dubbed "snakeskin," and this pattern was used up to the first years of the 20th Century. The board has an overall length of 6 3/4", with most of that length comprised of three stepped ovals, 1 5/8", 1 3/4", and 1 7/8" wide, which lead to a larger oval, 3 7/8" wide. Its padded obverse is faced in red wool, and it has three gold wire cords following the outline of the large oval, two of which then proceed to interweave with two other cords forming a figure "8" along its length. The top of the figure "8" wraps around a 5/8" diameter, gold plated, convex alloy button, which has a threaded tube to its reverse mating with a screw permanently fixed to the board. To the button’s obverse, its smooth border encloses the horizontally ribbed background to an eagle astride a fouled anchor, with the thirteen stars of the Union arching above. The reverse of the board is faced with black wool, through which protrudes a 4 1/4" long brass tab, hinged at one end, and with a cut-out to its free end. The cut-out mates with a smaller, hooked tab, in the same material, positioned to the underside of the buttoned end of the board. The wool to both the reverse and obverse is typically nap worn, but otherwise undamaged. The gold wire cords have darkened with age, but are intact, with very light wear. Extremely rare.

[Brig]

I'll post better pics of it when I get the chance

[bobgee]

Hmmmmmmm...................I'm skeptical of these being USMC-use shoulder knots. I do recognize them as Army insignia but do not have good feelings about the USMC buttons and M1892 USMC shoulder knot emblems on them. I think the red background denotes Army artillery branch and some enterprising person has doctored them up as Marine Corps. Have never seen these worn in any picture. As always I could be wrong. Hope someone out there can convince me that I am....

Semper Fi.......Bobgee

[DevilDan1900]

Out of curiosity, do you recall what these sold for on the auction? Also notice that they have the correct matched set of EGAs with one eagle looking to the right and one to the left. In my opinion that would be hard to reproduce if these were made up pieces.

[bobgee]

Found this pic at this link:

 

http://www.wheelerplantation.org/dress_helmet_and_knots.htm

[Brig]

keep in mind that in the late 1800s the USMC used many Army-type insignia, just as they did between the World Wars...

 

I've heard about these for several years now, and have seen repros offered through USMC Quartermaster, as well as the occasional original example that pops up

[usmcaviator]

I agree with Bob, or they may be band boards. I will check some references photos.

 

Mike

[teufelhunde.ret]

I look forward to more... interesting prospect for knowledge here...

[Leatherneck72]

Gents,

 

These are without a doubt P1872 ARMY Artillery shoulder knots 9hence the red wool denoting branch specialty) , with USMC buttons, and enlisted EGA's added. True, the Marines did wear shoulder knots. The P1892 version worn by USMC bandmembers was of the "banjo" style.(like these) They had red wool backgrounds edged in a brass crescent. The mohair braided knots were white. The origonal USMC buttons are on a long brass hollow post, and they are permanently affixed. Plus, officer epaulettes from this period would have had jeweler made high quality pinbacked emblems. The full dress enlisted (non band) epaulettes P1892 are all red..knots and background. It is very typical to see Army knots turned into "USMC" examples. Once you know the difference, you can't be fooled. I think I have some reference pics..I will dig them out.

 

 

Leatherneck72

[Brig]

interesting...I look forward to seeing the examples

 

the example I purchased is rather old...button and all. any ideas as to when these conversions were made?

[Leatherneck72]

What conversions? The USMC shoulder knots are distinctly different in construction.

[Brig]

What conversions? The USMC shoulder knots are distinctly different in construction.

 

I mean the Army knots being turned into USMC ones, as you mentioned