Para boots?

[doyler]

De Trez is not nobody. That was a quotation from his "American Warriors" book. Corcoran was not the only one manufacturer.

 

 

I didnt say he was.But just because its in a book doesnt mean its real or was issued.

 

Many books are raft with items that are not period or contract items.THere is no one book that is the end all or bible on the subject.Many books are written for two purposes.....1)to show case your collection and 2) to make a profit.In other cases new information has come to light and a second volume is warranted.Many of the boots in books made by Sears and Roebuck,Mason,Herman(they were also a WW2 contractor) Chippewa,Carolina etc,were in the business after the war making shoes for commercial sale.Even Corcoran made brown boots well into the late 50s and one 17th Airborne veteran here ordered them directly from the factory and wore them for everyday work boots.Im sure he wasnt the only one.Some of the model names were PARATROOPER and SKYMASTER for example..These too are shown in WW2 books but in reality are post war commercially made.I have encountered them in 11th Airborne groups from the 50s.Did some paras put zippers in there boots on the sides??Yes they did but WW2 contract boots didnt.In fact most or all the zippered boots I have seen are post war or Korea era manufactured or privately done.Private purchase and tailor made items exist.I know a man who had a set of tanker boots custom made in London.But here in the states when the war was on there wasnt a whole industry dedicated to producing variations of shoes or boots to be purchased or worn by civilians.Only after the war did a lot of this carry over to the civilian market.The US was at war and essential items were rationed.Leather was like copper.Much of the leather was for the war effort and the shoe companys were involved in producing for the military if they wanted to stay in bussiness.Here we had BOYT.They didnt make shoes but made a lot of rifle scabbards,knife sheaths,rifle slings and straps from leather and also canvas items.The companies had contracts to follow and I dont think they said today is friday and 15 eyelet day.

 

 

In the end I will stick with the 12 eyelets being the khaki nazi I am.

[Johan Willaert]

FWIW I have five different maker pairs of jump boots ranging in size from 8 to 11 and all have 12 rows of eyelets...

[Gregory]

Thanks Johan for this info.

 

Does anybody know if the jump boots during WWII could be bought in the PX? Maybe that was a source of 11- and 13-eyelet JBs?

[Gregory]

Many books are written for two purposes.....1)to show case your collection and 2) to make a profit.

 

A quarter of century I was a military history publicist and believe me -- it is not so good business to become a man of means.

 

[kjones5452]

I would think a PX (Post Exchange) might have them, since it's been said MPs and some officers had them, and

others who were non-jump qualified.

[doyler]

I would think a PX (Post Exchange) might have them, since it's been said MPs and some officers had them, and

others who were non-jump qualified.

 

 

THere was a posting of Ike the other day about him wearing/not wearing a helmet.He and two others appeared to be wearing jump boots.Issue or custom made I have no idea.But you know how Generals are :thumbsup:

 

I may have a picture(copy)from a local 14th Armored vet who was an MP.If I recall he was wearing jump boots also.I had become friends with a Pathfinder from the 508th PIR back in the late 1970s.He jumped at Normandy(was captured)Got away and jumped Holland,Was at the Buldge etc.anyway he made the comment about being issued two buckles for Holland and how incensed the men were when in Holland seeing MPs and truck drivers,QM officers etc in brand new jump boots.According to him he figured the MPs must have wrangled them from Supply.He also said many MPs were found shoe less from time to time

 

RD

[dogfacedsoldier]

Not to diverge from this discussion of paratrooper boots, but certain things have already been brought up. I have a pair of two buckle boots made commercially after the war. I noticed this after I bought them. The leather seemed too light for all the other pairs of double buckles I've seen before or since. No markings on them, and the soles were different than other double buckles I had seen. The metal buckles themselves were of a lighter and cheaper metal also. They were in good condition, but no idea who made them. The same as other things soldiers came back with. I've seen sears and wards made tanker jackets. These were private purchase during the war, I've seen the ads in both of those catalogs. I had a t least four or five of them at one time. They were a better quality than the issue ones, and this came about from the slow or low issue of tanker jackets, or winter combat jackets, as they were called by the QM. I think the differences between the regs and reality was vast at times, and at other times spot on. I say this because we truely don't understand the concept, as this is a phenomenon they happens only at certain times and for cetain resons. People should remember at times during the war, high demand probably led to lax inspection and acceptance of items. The demands of war overtook the need for close inspection. Grenade fuse length was a problem during the war, leading to accidents in combat and in training. James Jones wrote about this in his WWII book. Ron is right in his observations about books. They are a guide, but not the end all be all of answers. I own many of them, but I am aware that there are slight variations that appear from time to time. Great boots by the war, I hope you are very pleased with them. Sorry for this, but despite what people think there are things that happen that preclude so called iron clad procedures and guide lines, the Chaos theory will tell you this.

 

jon

[Gregory]

...you know how Generals are :thumbsup:

 

Here is WWII era Lt. Gen. Mark W. Clark and his jump boots. Looks like he had 11-eyelet specimen, or not?

[Jonesy]

Almost all of the Endicott Johnson jump boots I've seen have had 11 eyelets verses 12.

[doyler]

Almost all of the Endicott Johnson jump boots I've seen have had 11 eyelets verses 12.

 

Para boots or the M45 combat boot???

[doyler]

 

Here is WWII era Lt. Gen. Mark W. Clark and his jump boots. Looks like he had 11-eyelet specimen, or not?

 

 

Hard to say but Im thinking there is another eyelet in the crease of the boot

[sgtdorango]

Jeez, you think the photographer could have focused better on the boot for us!!... ...mike

[Gregory]

The photo taken in Italy, 1944, before entering to Rome.

 

For all "12-eyelet nazis" -- here you do have an evidence that 13-eyelet jumps boots existed.

 

[deros]

what an amazing thread.

I don't mean to be rude but failing to acknowledge that different manufacturers had variations in items that were nonetheless fit for purpose is showing yourself to be awfully closed minded.

and two vets, one from the 101st and one from the FSSF don't make you an expert. hundreds of pictures, scores of original examples and so on will eventually show that there is variation between contracts/ contractors. I have seen and owned jump boots with 11 and 12 eyelets, never 13 but that's because I haven't seen them, not that they didn't exist.

If you insist on your absolute standpoint that all issue boots had 12 eyelets despite the claims by most on here to the contrary then you know as much as you're ever going to.

I concur with the Endicott Johnson.

I have learned to be very receptive to information in my 30+ years of collecting/ study.

 

Its not just jump boots, about any item you can name from the ww2 inventory exhibits slight variations. this is according to the manufacturing capabilities of any given contractor. The one thing is that the newly produced item will always be fit for purpose. I have seen mint boots with a non bevelled heel that, rather than having a straight front edge, has a wave shaped front edge. the tap sole bearing the US ARMY legend and the QM spec nomenclature inside.

 

Also, be very careful with photos taken in Italy where countless troops adopted the common practice of having a lace up cuff or extension permanently added by cobblers to service shoes of both chromed and flesh out types thus making them into a practical facsimilie of a paratrooper boot. always check for a seam around the ankle before presuming the item to be an jump boot

[Gregory]

Also, be very careful with photos taken in Italy where countless troops adopted the common practice of having a lace up cuff or extension permanently added by cobblers to service shoes of both chromed and flesh out types thus making them into a practical facsimilie of a paratrooper boot. always check for a seam around the ankle before presuming the item to be an jump boot

Hello,

 

Here is a photo taken at Anzio, Italy. Do you mean such boots that look like double buckle boots?

[deros]

no, not a buckle cuff although I have seen toecapped service shoes with salvaged buckle cuffs added. what I mean is an additional piece of leather with more eyelets sewn to the top of the service shoe to make a tall, full lacing boot.

 

There are a number of these to be seen in J Gawne's ww2 in color book if you look carefully in the Italy part.

[Gregory]

Thanks for reply. Yes, I have seen various untypical boots worn by GIs in Italy. I do not want to post them here because it would be off-topic.

 

The same as you I think we have to be careful with all images from Italian front, but on the other hand we can not fall from one extremeness to another. All Italian front US parachute drops were dispersed so much that the paras landed in fact everywhere, on the positions of other infantry divisions, and "leg" infantry had an access to various para items -- from parachute camo canopies up to jump boots traded or taken from KIA paras. When in Africa 701st TD Battalion cooperated with the paras then in Italy some of the 701st men landed with jump boots.

 

Regards

 

Gregory

[deros]

I am not suggesting that boots you see on non para troops, be they infantry or other arms are not jump boots, far from it. But the extended boots is a phenomenon tha often gets overlooked or assumed to be para boots

Returning to the original thread I agree with General apathy, Ken, that those boots illustrated are a fine standard example.

[guscanoesp]

Hello,

 

Here is a photo taken at Anzio, Italy. Do you mean such boots that look like double buckle boots?

 

 

I think Deros was referring to modifications such as these, even though the extension has not eyelets in this particular case.:

 

 

 

It was taken in Velletri, Italy on May 29 1944.

 

Nice thread. I am really learning a lot from it.

 

Regards,

 

Gus

[Gregory]

Excellent image Gus! :thumbsup:

 

Yes, I agree, the boots as indicated by you are similar to ones I posted earlier from Anzio.

 

Regards

 

Greg

[Sabrejet]

Is it me....or do the boots in the pic from Italy (above) look as though the extensions are made from a section of leggings rotated 90 degrees so that the hooks/eyelets are at the front?! :think:

[deros]

they do look like a hook and eye arrangement but appear to be leather rather than canvas. It is that type of thing I mean though. That soldier with his helmet cover, improvised boots etc looks to be a modifying mofo.

It looks to me as if he has taken steps to alter his pants so as to be permanently bloused by the addition of elastic rather than a blouser tucked inside. Also, the rounded cuffs of his shirt cause me to speculate that it is not a standard WW2 wool or flannel shirt.

[Gregory]

:w00t:

 

Generally speaking that sniper is fascinating -- what he has on his helmet? It is neither US nor German parachute fabric. If I am not mistaken it is nothing of German uniforms as well.

[1917enfield]

I actually have a reference book for this topic. :w00t:

 

[Sabrejet]

The so-called "High-sided airborne forces boots" are actually Shoepacs!! Not such a good reference book.