how to identify a Vietnam Western Bowie Fighting Knife

[sogmanjoe]

hi i want to get a vietnam western bowie knife, but not sure how to tell any differences if there is with them if anyone can help me it would be very helpful. thank joe

[elbertson]

Here's a thread on another forum that may help you: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopi...id/872513/tp/1/

[sogmanjoe]

Here's a thread on another forum that may help you: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopi...id/872513/tp/1/

hi thank u for the link it has help joe

[sactroop]

hi i want to get a vietnam western bowie knife, but not sure how to tell any differences if there is with them if anyone can help me it would be very helpful. thank joe

 

Sogmanjoe,

I started looking into this subject a couple of years ago. There’s still a lot to uncover about this subject. But I believe I can give you some good advice.

Western made at least two different stock numbered “bowies” during the Vietnam time period. The most common by far is the bowie with the wooden handle the (W49). Also they produced the stock number (649) a bowie with a handle made of synthetic stag for the handle.

According to Western’s 1986 catalog they started producing the W49 in 1964. It’s generally excepted that the first two variations on this knife where blade marked (see pics below). These two variations appear during the time period of 1964 to at least 1967. There are at least 4 more variations in knife markings and wooden handle type from then to 1977 when Western started date coding their knives on the blade. This practice was continued after Western was sold to the Coleman Co. in 1984 and goes on until 1991. In 1991 the rights to the Western brand was auctioned to the Camillus Knife Co. . Camillus produced the W49 until 2006. Camillus closed it doors for the last time in April of 2007.

Getting back to the subject of Bowies during the Vietnam time period. IMHO there are two problems here. One is the lack of surviving documents from the Western Cutlery Co. . This would provide the best provenance to establishing the exact time periods for these variations on the Western W49 and 649 knifes. However one can’t say that such detailed information ever did exist on paper. It appears that much was lost during the periods that Western changed hands. But there’s always the chance that more documents are yet to surface that will clear things up. I can hope. The second problem is defining the Vietnam time period for these knives and other equipment. While the official end of the Vietnam war is April 30 1975 The day the North Vietnamese entered the U.S. Embassy grounds. The facts are that the last two years of the war The U.S. was not sending in much of anything into the country as far as manpower and equipment. IMHO it’s hard to link gear made after 1972 to being “ In Country” without being attached to some strong provenance.

With the above in mind at this time I would advise you to look for knives with one of the following markings:

 

This is generally excepted as the first variation of the W49

 

This is the next version of blade marking the W49

 

 

IMHO many more variations on these knives also fall into the proper Vietnam time period. But without more evidence to support them the above examples are my recommendation at this time.

[elbertson]

Thanks for stepping in, Sac. I knew your research was fairly extensive and that you had more info than I could ever find in a short time...that's why I linked to your thread from KF.

[mayralphie]

I have owned alot of these knives and in fact the picture is of my knife. Just when you think you have them figured out one turns up that does not fit the mold. I have always thought that the Western Bowie with the bigger handle bolts, thick handle, W49 guard marks and ringed sheath was post Vietnam but then came across this on ebay. It has alot of documentation and looks good. It still could be post Vietnam presentation item but who knows. The ones marked on the blade with "BOWIE" (Pictured) are definately Vietnam era.

 

http://img443.No_outside_hosting.us/i/cbf7pjgcwkkgrhqyoknmez4.jpg/

[mayralphie]

Can't see it in picture but blade in engraved with soldiers name and 69 - 70 Vietnam. Also has medal with his name and paper documents dated 69-70.

[sogmanjoe]

Sogmanjoe,

I started looking into this subject a couple of years ago. There’s still a lot to uncover about this subject. But I believe I can give you some good advice.

Western made at least two different stock numbered “bowies” during the Vietnam time period. The most common by far is the bowie with the wooden handle the (W49). Also they produced the stock number (649) a bowie with a handle made of synthetic stag for the handle.

According to Western’s 1986 catalog they started producing the W49 in 1964. It’s generally excepted that the first two variations on this knife where blade marked (see pics below). These two variations appear during the time period of 1964 to at least 1967. There are at least 4 more variations in knife markings and wooden handle type from then to 1977 when Western started date coding their knives on the blade. This practice was continued after Western was sold to the Coleman Co. in 1984 and goes on until 1991. In 1991 the rights to the Western brand was auctioned to the Camillus Knife Co. . Camillus produced the W49 until 2006. Camillus closed it doors for the last time in April of 2007.

Getting back to the subject of Bowies during the Vietnam time period. IMHO there are two problems here. One is the lack of surviving documents from the Western Cutlery Co. . This would provide the best provenance to establishing the exact time periods for these variations on the Western W49 and 649 knifes. However one can’t say that such detailed information ever did exist on paper. It appears that much was lost during the periods that Western changed hands. But there’s always the chance that more documents are yet to surface that will clear things up. I can hope. The second problem is defining the Vietnam time period for these knives and other equipment. While the official end of the Vietnam war is April 30 1975 The day the North Vietnamese entered the U.S. Embassy grounds. The facts are that the last two years of the war The U.S. was not sending in much of anything into the country as far as manpower and equipment. IMHO it’s hard to link gear made after 1972 to being “ In Country” without being attached to some strong provenance.

With the above in mind at this time I would advise you to look for knives with one of the following markings:

 

This is generally excepted as the first variation of the W49

 

This is the next version of blade marking the W49

IMHO many more variations on these knives also fall into the proper Vietnam time period. But without more evidence to support them the above examples are my recommendation at this time.

 

 

hi sactroop the info you sent to me, is just what i was look for and the photos are a great help to me aswell.thanks for your help. joe

[sactroop]

hi sactroop the info you sent to me, is just what i was look for and the photos are a great help to me aswell.thanks for your help. joe

 

Happy hunting!

[tsellati]

How easy or difficult is it to come across a Western Bowie that actually looks like it may have seen use during the Vietnam War. Many of the examples of Vietnam War vintage Bowies do not appear to have traveled any further west than the California shoreline .

 

Is it uncommon to come across a Bowie with that "been there and done that" look? I'd sure like to find one and would pay good money to acquire it.

 

Tim

[mayralphie]

The only sure way to get one that was in Vietnam is from a vet that can document the knife. If your really lucky you might come across a presentation piece but that is still not a guarentee that it was in Vietnam. The one in the picture with the chrome plated blade came from a vet and I have the documentation and a photo of him wearing the knife in Vietnam. Chrome plating of the blade was to protect it from rust in the jungle. If you come across a chrome plated Western Bowie it was probably plated for jungle use. Charlie

[tsellati]

Chrome plating of the blade was to protect it from rust in the jungle. If you come across a chrome plated Western Bowie it was probably plated for jungle use. Charlie

 

AH, I was unaware of this point. This information will be very helpful in my search.

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

[SKIPH]

Tim-I found out a long time ago, from returning Vietnam veterans, was that they gave away their knives to buddies or indig troops before they left. Back in the early, and late 70's, all the guys I approached for any type of knife, especially SOG knives, said they left them in Vietnam. Very few guys that I can recall actually had theirs. In fact in 20 years of service, was never given a Vietnam carried knife. The ones brought home were kept, or given to some relative. SKIP

[05B4S]

Tim-I found out a long time ago, from returning Vietnam veterans, was that they gave away their knives to buddies or indig troops before they left. Back in the early, and late 70's, all the guys I approached for any type of knife, especially SOG knives, said they left them in Vietnam. Very few guys that I can recall actually had theirs. In fact in 20 years of service, was never given a Vietnam carried knife. The ones brought home were kept, or given to some relative. SKIP

 

Or...sold or pawned to shops in Fayettenam!

[sactroop]

How easy or difficult is it to come across a Western Bowie that actually looks like it may have seen use during the Vietnam War. Many of the examples of Vietnam War vintage Bowies do not appear to have traveled any further west than the California shoreline .

 

Is it uncommon to come across a Bowie with that "been there and done that" look? I'd sure like to find one and would pay good money to acquire it.

 

Tim

 

Tim,

They come all sorts of ways. But you know that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I still haven’t actually put my hands on one of the W49’s with the chrome plating. I’m thinking these must have come from their custom shop. The W49’s did leave the factory with a high polish on them. All of the W49’s I’ve seen from Western Cutlery are high carbon steel and most of them show some sign of aging after 30 plus years. The knife in the box above looks dull due to the original preservative still being on the knife after 40+ years. I’ve got WW2 and earlier knives that left the factory chrome plated and most of them look as new or close to it. Chrome is very hard and resist a lot of the normal scratching that would show on other knives.

The way you set up your knife photo’s is inspiring. It’s something for me to shoot for.

[mayralphie]

I guess I have been lucky over the past 35 years of collecting. I have handled about five Western Bowies that were used in Vietnam. They all had really good documentation. Of the five two were chrome plated and three were not. The chrome plated ones were in really nice shape other then some chipping to the chrome and handle wear and maybe minor pitting. The other three were heavly pitted from the jungle. Expect to see hard use and pitting on any knife used in Vietnam as the jungle destroyed them pretty good. When I see a Vietnam used knife for sale that is in mint condition I usually pass. If the knife has the original leather sheath I expect to see some pretty hard use on that leather. The chrome one I own has a replacment sheath made of canvas. I have two other knives my cousin gave me in 1969 when he returned from Vietnam. They all have heavy use and both have the sheaths replaced after they rotted away. Bottom line if you want a western Bowie that was actully used in Vietnam you need good provinence on the knife. It should show jungle use. If you can located a chromed one I would say there was a good possibility that it was used in Vietnam. The marking are very important. I would stay away from those not marked "BOWIE" on the blade or cross guard. If there is a letter on the blade under the Western name it is post 1977. The ones marked W49 with large handle bolts are questionable to me.

[Bluehawk]

...Chrome plating of the blade was to protect it from rust in the jungle. If you come across a chrome plated Western Bowie it was probably plated for jungle use. Charlie

A naive question, most probably - but, was this chroming ever done in-country?

[mayralphie]

Have no idea. The one I have is chromed on the blade, crossguard and handle pins. (See picture) Without taking the grips off there is no way to tell if it was a factory job or post purchase. I have never found any reference to Western chroming their knives. It could have been a special order as there were Western Bowies ordered by 5th Special Forces with blade inscriptions. My cousin (who served in Vietnam from 1968 to 1969) said he saw knives in country with chrome plating to protect them from moisture.

[TrentRock]

The only sure way to get one that was in Vietnam is from a vet that can document the knife. If your really lucky you might come across a presentation piece but that is still not a guarentee that it was in Vietnam. The one in the picture with the chrome plated blade came from a vet and I have the documentation and a photo of him wearing the knife in Vietnam. Chrome plating of the blade was to protect it from rust in the jungle. If you come across a chrome plated Western Bowie it was probably plated for jungle use. Charlie

Is it possible that the ones you think are chrome plated are STAINLESS STEEL and the ones you think are not chromed are regular "carbon steel"???

[sactroop]

Is it possible that the ones you think are chrome plated are STAINLESS STEEL and the ones you think are not chromed are regular "carbon steel"???

 

Western started making stainless versions of some of their knives as early as 1967. There is a version of the Western Bowie that appears in the 1968 catalog. This knife has a stock number of S-649. It differs from the W49 by the stainless steel used in the blade and the synthetic stag material they used for the handle. I don't know how long they made this knife but by the 1978 catalog it has disappeared.

[mayralphie]

No the one I have is chrome plated. You can see where some of the plating is peeling with age and use. Stainless steel does not peel off as you know. Charlie

[mayralphie]

Teslleta: Here it is. Let me know. Charlie

 

http://img11.No_outside_hosting.us/g/cblziwcgkkgrhqyokpme0un.jpg/

[mayralphie]

Teslleta: Here it is. Let me know. Charlie

 

http://img11.No_outside_hosting.us/g/cblziwcgkkgrhqyokpme0un.jpg/

[mayralphie]

Teslleta: Here it is. Let me know. Charlie

 

http://img11.No_outside_hosting.us/g/cblziwcgkkgrhqyokpme0un.jpg/

[sactroop]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but it seemed like the right place to add this. Thanks to Tom Williams who had it in with some old Western documents.