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I fully agree with the statements allready made on the impressions.

 

Also a big terror is the way people carry their weapons (all types) around... Even the correct clad, equipped and detailed individuals. Like if they are carrying a M-16 or any other current model of pistolgripped automatic rifle....

 

Just a terrible sight and a total loss of the correct impression :(

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That Bastogne picture is a classic example of "stereotypical" wrongness..YES HQ/506th and 326th AEB "warriors" painted their faces for NORMANDY and "Uber Airborne" 17th eschewed Mohawk haicuts for Varsity but at Bastogne i certainly have never seen a picture of a warpaint applied airborne trooper.

 

Now i say NEVER SAY NEVER...but this re enactor has stretched Normandy a bit far in his impression.

 

Mind you Stijn he does bear a remarkable resemblance to Erwin..Yikes

 

This is a classic case of individualism and bad research

 

Just my £1 worth

 

Regards

 

Lloyd

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Who? Me? w00t.gif:blink:

Erwin.

 

Well, I am 36 soon .... still good for an MP or rather not?

 

You can clearly see that none of them actually served in a unit.

Or forgotten all about it.

Or don't even take the trouble of going through the basic training manuals etc.

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NO Not you Erwin..Erwin Pieters from Belgium.

 

See again you rasie a valid point Erwin..you "think" you are too old to be a front line soldier at 36...some of the National Guard Divisions had mid 30s soldiers in them when they were sent to the ETO even some had early 40s soldiers in them....

 

someone can correct me on this....

 

Now the draftee divisions were a lot younger in average age

 

Regards

 

Lloyd

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Well, I rather go for MP (then I can take my dog with me).

I know that there were older, more seasoned soldiers among the combat troops, but I simply feel I don't belong in their ranks.

 

Maybe some old Major at HQ or something ..... ;)

 

Btw, I knew you weren't referring to me.

It's just my bad character surfacing sometimes. :lol:

 

Take care,

Erwin

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My 100% take on this is..

 

1/ as long as you "look" in physical proportion/age

 

2/ as long as you have researched your impression

 

3/ as long as your uniform "fits" into the timeframe you are portraying

 

4/ as long as you "look" correct

 

5/ as long as you know a portion of history regarding the unit you are portraying for example our unit portrays "windows" in time a particular week/timescale.....event or action you can narrow the uniform /web gear requirements to suit

 

6/ ? did i leave anything out guys and girls

 

yes i did...a unit was a unit.....not a troop full of individuals so a generic unit portrayal always looks best so its always best to go for a unit representation

 

Regards

 

Lloyd

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Mind you Stijn he does bear a remarkable resemblance to Erwin..Yikes

 

Lloyd ,

 

Personally i think Erwin Peters is the one and only good E/506 re-enactor.

 

Greetings,

Jan

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WOW. Is that Hallowen 2006 in Bastogne? I always wanted to reenact but by the time I got enough original kit in my size I was 40 yrs old. I figured at that age I was a little old to play dress up. pinch.gifcrying.gif:lol:

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Not everything was "khaki." Multiple manufacturers made multiple items using mulitple materials received from multiple suppliers. There is no way that everything will match, and there is no field soldier in the world that even noticed or cared. An extreme example of this school of though is a man I spoke to at a militaria show. He had a 1942 jeep, and was looking for 1942-dated webgear, and specifically, a 1942-dated holster made by Rock Island Arsenal to go with his 1942 serial number range Rock Island Arsenal .45 caliber pistol!

 

AMEN Brother!

 

"OD was only used in Korea" and "The uniform on my mannequin needs to be matching shades of khaki, his / my web gear must be all matching maker and date on every piece of equipment", etc. We hear it at least once a day. Absolutely incorrect, very obnoxious... and kind of sad. Imagine what a real combat soldier would think of someone obsessed with such trivial nonsense.

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Jan...I AGREE............with you regarding Erwin and Stijn..they get thier impression RIGHT.

 

Hey Chris..define dress up ?

 

Regards

 

 

Lloyd

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I agree that the devil is in the detail. All the things mentioned in the list above are true although to me many of them are not detail but basics :)

Hows this? at a battle last year I saw the head honcho of an Airborne reenactment group self (set up as mega authentic) stood in the centre of a crossroads, (his troops were a little more tacticvally deployed) on a cell phone. no helmet. I quizzed this later and was told he had to direct some movement with the event coordinator. That may be so but why do it stood in the middle of a crossroads which would be DF'd by mortar fire in reality and why not, after seeking cover, use the phone if you really have to but hold a handie talkie next to it so as to stand closer scrutiny.

My point is that even when the uniform and equipment is correctly worn as per the TOE or accepted modified practice, unauthentic behaviour can let you down.

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Sheikh Al Stranghi
Johan,

Is that a cell phone hanging on the belt of his jump jacket???

 

 

Ugh, patton ... Wings and Wheels 2006...

 

He did that all day, when he came close we gave him the finger. What a total moron was that. Next day he asked us why we didn't salute him! (We were there as vietnam, first of all..)

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  • 4 weeks later...

I've always felt that the classic definition of a farb isn't necesarily someone with the wrong kit or wrong look. If they don't know they're doing wrong, they're just ignorant and silly-looking. What bugs me is when they know they're wrong, yet they misrepresent themselves to other reeanctors and (100 times worse) to the public as being correct and/or representative. That's what gets me more upset than anything.

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  • 1 month later...

I love the cell phone....what a clown!

And the winner is........

 

2006-042.jpg

The Jeep was running at 5MPH and imagine hearing a deafening 'Lili Marlene' coming from the loudpeakers somewhere on that Jeep... :rolleyes:

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I've always felt that the classic definition of a farb isn't necesarily someone with the wrong kit or wrong look. If they don't know they're doing wrong, they're just ignorant and silly-looking. What bugs me is when they know they're wrong, yet they misrepresent themselves to other reeanctors and (100 times worse) to the public as being correct and/or representative. That's what gets me more upset than anything.

 

 

I wish everybody atleast thought a little in that way. Some people would rather go behind your back talk smack instead of telling you and trying to help. thank god that all are not that way.

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  • 1 month later...
Guest Transport

Please pardon me but I just joined this great forum a short while back. As mentioned the best way to combat FARBISM (if there is such a term) is just good old fashioned research. Thankfully WW2 was photographed in both still photos and motion pictures. Some greatfully in color. All one would need to do is simply watch some of the better examples and look through some of the large collection of still photos for information on how to best present themselves as a particpant of WW2.

 

There are many first person accounts {Primary documentation} out there in the form of books- these are found at any decent sized library, and if not can be obtained by Inter-Library Loan. READ them!

 

Lastly- as mentioned locate those still living WW2 vets and ask them questions. They were there and know how things were.

 

In closing we should never stop researching, to do this would make our impressions stagnet in time.

 

Transport out.

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What is it about "Farbs" that people go out of their way to criticize? Are they people that you love to hate?

 

There are people that would qualify as “farbs” (defined as someone that in some way misrepresents historical accuracy in the way they dress and/or information they provide?) everywhere. Even the tradition oriented Marine Corps puts people into "historical" uniforms for public display that to the average person look pretty good. The Marines that wear these uniforms usually don't have a clue what they are representing.

 

I don't mean to pick on the Marine Corps, except to say that if the Corps has problems with historical accuracy there are certainly people that meet the definition of Farb elsewhere. I was once, many summers ago before the word reenactor was coined, a member of an 1870-90s U.S. cavalry group. Now that there is so much more information about the uniforms and equipment I recall my involvement with regret. We primarily based our uniform and equipment on director John Ford's films Fort Apache, Rio Grande and She Wore a Yellow Ribbon.

 

The National Park Service had (and may still) people that were called "Living historians" that were pretty well versed and clothed to play a role and make visiting sites more interesting. The best that I saw were at Ft. Laramie. The people looked the part, were appropriately dressed and knew their history. The officer quarters are each set up for a different era of the Fort's history and the living historians at each quarters accurately portrayed the era represented. They didn't push themselves on visitors; they were just there as if they belonged. They would answer questions as if they were in the era rather than speak in the past tense.

 

I have to say that at another national historical site the living historian had the knowledge but did not look the part. Another had people that looked the part but didn't know much of the history. The National Park service rangers are usually very knowledgeable and wear the regular uniform. One Park Ranger I recall that was exceptional was at the Sharpsburg battle field.

 

What is the point of...complaining (whining) and making fun of reenactors. If you don't like the way they misrepresent what they are trying to reenact through lack of knowledge, inappropriate uniforms and equipment or physical appearance do something about it. If you don't have the huevos to tell them what they are doing wrong, write a paper or pamphlet with illustrations and references, and give it to them. They may not be interested in correcting the things you think are inaccurate but at least you will have done more than whine about it.

 

A word of caution about veterans. In my experience they often don't remember details or didn't care then or now. The average enlisted man generally didn't and still don't know what was going on except in their immediate vicinity. Two guys that were in the same foxhole will tell different stories of what they experienced. Most have never done any research and could not tell the difference between a M1917 and M1 helmet

 

The physical appearance misrepresentation will be the hardest part to get across to these people. They are most likely in denial about their weight and can't or won't do anything about it. I have heard various rationalizations from farbs as to why they think they're accurately portraying what they represent. I met a guy that wanted to represent a 1916 Punitive Expedition cavalry soldier. He wore a full beard and stated that he had seen pictures of soldiers taken in Mexico that had beards. Except for troops in the field that could not shave for a few days, there were no beards in Pershing's command. I think what this guy may have seen in images was civilian mule packers.

 

Perhaps you would be more comfortable with a citation like check list that you can check the items that are wrong and allow space to write an explanatory comment. Example: X APPEARANCE Too fat, X RIFLE Wrong sling, X UNIFORM wrong boots or X HISTORY that didn't happen in WWII, it happened during the seige of Jerico. Maybe you could casually walk up to them, ask a question or two and then cold cock them. Throw down your message or citation and run like hell or you may be arrested or stabbed in the butt with a bayonet (maybe both). Shoot the bastards, that'll teach 'em a lesson in how the medics really worked.

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Canteen Guru, that is a pretty good rant, if I do say so.

 

As a Civil War Reenactor, formerly with the "renown" :) Stonewall Brigade, (them's Rebs, for those who don't know) I can tell you that amongst our group, the "autnickity" standards were so high as to literally run new people OUT of the hobby. Folks laugh when they hear of reenactors worrying about the right canteen straps (leather or cloth?..Oh, the hours I spent hearing that arguement....) how many stitches are in a shell jacket buttonhole (depends...are we talking Peter Tait, or hand done...or......) etc etc etc. Ad nauseum.

 

Eventually, I became a Medical Reenactor (and ended up as Brigade Surgeon for a time....) which is what I still do now. In *this* line of reenacting, it's not so much the uniform and equippage, as it is the body of knowledge you possess. I (literally) studied old medical books for 2 years prior to even starting to do the Medical bit.

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make, at least for myself, is that authenticity is all well and good, but it can be taken to the 'nth' degree by some. Usually, those doing so, in my experience, were folks with zero prior military (real military) experience. They were the ones who actually WANTED to "experience" the "life of the sojer" and slept with only a blanket in the treeline, didn't bathe, shunned tourists etc etc. I was not a popular fellow when I told these folks one day that if they REALLY wanted to have a "moment", they should make every attempt to contract diarrea, and I'd helpfully dose them with Ipecac or something along those lines. Heck, we could do that for an entire weekend, with no change of clothing, for a true "authentic" experience.

 

 

Sadly, no one ever took me up on that offer of "authenticity". I left the unit shortly thereafter. :)

 

Just my two cents.

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Ahhhh Farbs. There are many clsses of farbs in my experience. They range from the woefully uninformed to the willfully ignorant. The uninformed, when educated properly (in other words with friendship and humor) will very quickly make good and be a great member of whatever group they are a part of. The ignorant will never change no matter how nice you are, they have their own agenda and will never deviate. We do not allow them in our outfits as they are nothing but trouble.

 

Your point about the "stitch Nazi's" is pretty accurate. Most wrap their entire existence up in their reenacting world. They usually are not well employed and are constantly scraping by but woe betide the individual who has a real life with wife and children to take some of their precious time away from reenacting.

 

The group that makes me laugh the most though are the "beard wearers". I am allways amazed at how far they will go to maintain their precious beards! It is sad that the level of vanity reaches so high as to interfere with an otherwise fun pastime. I remember one cowboy reenactor who wanted to move into WWII German reenacting and how much effort he expended trying to prove to us that mustaches were OK in a non Gebirgs unit. we went so far as to show him that facial hair was allowed in gebirgs units but was not as prevelant as most "beard wearers" would like people to believe.

 

Gary

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Dang! I wonder where that fine condition M1942A2E2 motor scooter with special on road tires came from. I wonder if it still has the original swamp gas engine. I'm glad to see the operator has helmet and goggles, for the speed of these things was phenomenal if the engine was in good condition. Of course this example is missing the JATO bottles that where sometimes used to get over rivers where there were no bridges.

 

Unfortunatly the markings on this example of the A2E2 are not correctly placed and the vehicle serial number is missing. There must have been extensive and expensive rebuild to restore this interesting example of a nearly unheard of vehicle. One of the undesireable features of these scooters is that it took months of training to operate them. The failure rate of drivers was very high, but for those that completed the training the vehicle they trained on was permanatly assigned. I wonder if the current owner has the documents that indicate the name of the vehicle operator. It would be very interesting to contact him and get the full story of his training and use of this A2E2.

 

I hope that this vehicle will be on display at a museum for all to see the "Beast" and gain an appreciation of the special soldiers it took to operate it. The combat record of the "scooter-shooters" as they were called is unparalleled in military annuals.

 

Thanks for sharing this remarkable image, but what is that just to the right of the M2E2?

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Of course this example is missing the JATO bottles that where sometimes used to get over rivers where there were no bridges.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

thumbsup.gif

 

It would be very interesting to contact him and get the full story of his training and use of this A2E2.

The pic was taken in the Czech Republic during big and professional reenactment event. Nobody knew this guy however. He is not from Poland, not from the Czech Republic, maybe from Austria or Germany? The Czechs are excellent reenactors, the same as modellers.

 

Thanks for sharing this remarkable image, but what is that just to the right of the M2E2?

What is this? :lol:

I will tell you. What you the Americans call "FARBS" we call "Palestinian Commandos".

 

Regards :)

 

Greg

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  • 4 months later...

When it concerns age, I have heard various things so far talking of 11 yearolds to I believe one person said "I am too old at 36" let us not forget a prime example of age in the ranks when we look at Paul H. Douglas.

 

For those who are not familiar with the man, Paul H. Douglas became the oldest recruit to graduate from Parris Island in 1942 at the age of 50! And he was no desk jockey either, he went and served on the front lines in the south pacific earning two purple hearts while at it.

 

Theres such a broad range its hard to determine what is farby, rather than judge someones impression if you question something rather than outright saying it is wrong why not approach the individual and ask them about why their impression is a certain way, you might be surprised at the research that is backing his impression.

 

Just like someone made the comment of the German soldier with the beard. I want to divert your attention to this photo,

post-1869-1193222903.jpg

and those arent just some unknown unit those german soldiers are in, those soldiers belong to the 3rd SS Totenkompf.

 

So you see stuff you dont usually think is accurate may have some good research behind it.

 

Mike Kirby

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Ok, but I still don't think I would fit in as a frontline soldier though.

If I could fit in an M-18 TD ..... then we're talking. :lol:

Oh well, as long as my girlfriend keeps considering me as "her hero" .....

 

As for the bearded Germans ..... take a good look at original photos, you can see a lot of short beards on them, whether Wehrmacht or Waffen-SS.

Especially Ost-Truppen had beards judging from pictures I've seen.

 

Erwin

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