Balfour LGB Service Pilot wings - shield variations

[Tinman]

I’ve had these wings for several years. I picked them up locally a couple of years apart. I think the S background patterns are interesting. The bottom wing has the horizontal line pattern which I’m familiar with. The top wing has a fine pebbled pattern which I’ve not seen on another wing. Any thoughts?

[Tinman]

Top Wing

[Tinman]

Bottom Wing

[Tinman]

Backs

[Tinman]

Hallmarks

[Paul S]

I'm sure some of our resident Balfour experts will chime in on this one--I'm not one of them. I would be a little wary of the pebbled background as the hallmark doesn't look quite right to my eyes..lettering seems a bit too widely spaced relative to the other wing which is more in line with what I would expect. I haven't seen a pebbled background either, but I've only been looking at these things for about 5-years now.

 

What are the lengths and weights? Do they compare favorably to other Balfour wings? Thanks for an interesting post.

 

PS

[pfrost]

I'm sure some of our resident Balfour experts will chime in on this one--I'm not one of them. I would be a little wary of the pebbled background as the hallmark doesn't look quite right to my eyes..lettering seems a bit too widely spaced relative to the other wing which is more in line with what I would expect. I haven't seen a pebbled background either, but I've only been looking at these things for about 5-years now.

 

What are the lengths and weights? Do they compare favorably to other Balfour wings? Thanks for an interesting post.

 

PS

 

I have seen and handled both variations. I don't think anything is wrong with either, just that the one with the pebbled or crosshatched area is a rarer variation that the more common lined one. Nice wings!

 

Patrick

[John Cooper]

Backs

 

 

Well I am no expert only a fan and I have not been able to hold the top one in my hand so it it very hard to compare them. That being said the forst thing that stands out are the fittings and then the makers mark. Pauls has already mentioned what I noticed... The fitting are not typical of any of the Balfour wings I have...

 

This is not to say they are not good but different. As some of you know there are wings that have a very similar pattern (the same as pictured) but are not marked although they have what i would consider the typical fittings.

 

The wings are a bit of a head scratcher... There is one gentleman on this forum I would like to have his opinion.

 

Cheers and thanks for posting this interesting variation.

 

John

[COOKIEMAN]

Have viewed the pictures and read the comments in regard to the "unusual" Balfour Service Pilot Wing. Before making some comments, I have been a militaria collector for over 55 years, stating out in my pre-teen years. I have been a serious wing collector for over 25 years. When I first started collecting U S wings I wanted them all. After filling several Riker Mounts I realized this was crazy rom a cost and practicality standpoint, so I decided to concentrate on one manufacturer and form as near complete collection as possible. Because of appearance and craftmanship, I decided to collect BALFOUR / LGB. I have not completed this goal, but am close (anybody have a Balfour 2 inch Tech Observer for sale?)

 

Now to address the wing in question. I have been collecting long enough to know I st"ain't seen it all". So when a variety I haven't seen shows up, I am interested. This variety is new to me and at first blush I find it troublesome. Though I do not have the wing in hand, I can make some educated observations. I agree with previous comments about the the fittings and makermark. They do not meet the standards for a Balfour made insigna (Remember, Balfour was a Jewelry Company, that made insignia to jewelry standards)The pebbled background around the "S" is sloppy when compared to the quality of an LGB product. The pebbleing is a random pattern and more distinct in some places, and has what look like flat spots in others. Also, on the left edge on the bottom serif on the "S" there appears to be casting flash or debris. Compare it with the "S" on the other wing. Lastly, the overall appearnce of the reverese side is ugly. If I was offered this wing, I would turn it down as there are too many deficiencies to meet my standards. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

 

This is not written to rain on anybody's parade. I think the original poster wants opinions about his wing, now he has several.

[COOKIEMAN]

As a followup to my previous comments, attached is a picture of how you can almost put all your AAF Wings and Qualification Badges in one (very expensive) 20 X 30 inch frame. I apologize for the quality of the pix, the wings are behind glass, hanging on the wall. Glare on the glass affects the quality of the pictures.

[COOKIEMAN]

A couple of close up shots of the LGB / Balfour Wings. Two of the two inch wings are not Balfours, I'm using them as space fillers until the good ones come along.

 

It's hard to decide which is my favorite, it's a tossup between the Senior Service Pilot and the Senior Baloon Pilot

[COOKIEMAN]

Other half of display

[Paul S]

Good observation on the hallmark of a jeweler, Cookie. Those I've seen don't vary much and that was my point, though left unsaid on a recent WWI Tiffany wing thread. Those hallmarks are carefully designed trademarks and have long been filed with the Patent Office or equivalent trademark office.

 

Balfour even took the additional finishing step to grind down all the upper edges of the feathers to flatten them so they would reflect light and sparkle brightly in the sunlight. I've only seen one or two early AMICO wings that got the same treatment.

 

Beautiful collection, Cookie.

 

..... It's a Balfour armillary...you find similar ones on Assmann and Vanguard just about as nicely done.

 

PS

[armillary_journey]

OK guys. I have only been looking closely at wings for a year now, so admittedly I don't know jack. Sorry Jack, not you. However another very esteemed Wing PhD that chimes in on here pretty often has been so kind to look at some different wings I bought off of ebay before I bought them. Well he has saved me from myself a couple or more times....I had a Balfour wing a couple months back, he looked at it and when he got back with me he said, anytime you see a Balfour look for a crisp quality hallmark, and, the wing I was looking at looked just like this hallmark, he told me don't buy, or really use caution about buying a Balfour wing if the hallmark is far from the sterling mark, and off, or much off center is not a plus either. When this person had that to say, I didn't even consider purchasing it then. He also warned me that next to N.S. Meyer that Balfour is a highly faked wing because it is a desired wing, and to just use caution with them. Thanks. Oh, by the way, no one mentioned anything specifically about the type of pins, or how the pins are attached, is there any significance in these two wings Tinman posted that could be of thought?

[John Cooper]

Balfour even took the additional finishing step to grind down all the upper edges of the feathers to flatten them so they would reflect light and sparkle brightly in the sunlight. I've only seen one or two early AMICO wings that got the same treatment.

 

Beautiful collection, Cookie.

 

..... It's a Balfour armillary...you find similar ones on Assmann and Vanguard just about as nicely done.

 

PS

 

 

Paul,

 

Thanks for mentioning the extra hand finishing as it is one of the things that really gets me with the Balfour wings. I love it when the light hits them just right and the just shine!

 

As for the collection posted that is a beautiful display with some wings I only wish I had! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

John

[rustywings]

Gents,

 

I'm throwing my support behind Patrick in that Balfour did indeed produce a WWII era Service Pilot wing with a "stippled" designed shield, in addition to the more common variation with horizonal lines. In the same breath, I'm also supporting Cookieman with concerns about the stippled wing depicted in the first post. (How's that for taking one side, or the other, or both!)

 

Actually, the pattern in question does exist, but may not be fairly represented with the example pictured in the first post. Weather permitting, I'll try and post some comparison photos tomorrow of a stippled LGB Service Pilot wing which I believe is authentic.

 

Russ

[bschwartz]

I believe that this is an example of a WW2 era stippled wing that Russ and Patrick are talking about. This isn't in my personal collection so I can't take better pictures than the ones shown on my site. Click here to view the wing.

[Tinman]

I have intensely scrutinized both wings thoroughly with all of your comments in mind. The biggest bug-a-boo is the pin. It is not correct for a Blafour. It’s possible that it could have been replaced. I’ve seen and handled many cast wings over the years and this wing does not appear to be cast in my opinion. Cookieman and I are both members of a local militaria club. I have known him for over 25 years and I’ve bought many wings from him (not these two). His opinion of the service pilot wing was made without knowing who Tinman was so the opinion is completely unbiased (I consider us to be good friends). The club meets next week at which time Cookieman will be able to handle and compare both wings side by side. Although I seek Cookieman’s opinion on wings as I did recently, I did not on either of these wings. They were both relatively cheap (under $50) so I thought there was little risk. I value and trust Cookieman’s expertise and I will abide by his assessment. Hopefully he will be willing to post his conclusion.

 

Jim

[rustywings]

Jim, I agree with you...the most distracting thing about your wing is the replaced pin. With the repair came the removal of the original patina which left behind a blouchy look that caused some to question its authenticity. The example depicted on Bob's website and the one I posted below have their original hardware and should support the opinion that Balfour did produce several variations of this large-shield Service Pilot wing during WWII. Thanks for the interesting thread. Russ

[rustywings]

The backs.

[rustywings]

Close-up of the shield. Note the open space between the wings and the upper shield. Slightly different than Jim's "solid" example. Just another variation.

[John Cooper]

Well this has turned into a very interesting thread indeed. I greatly appreciate all the thoughtful commentsand for the supporting photos (THX Russ). As I mentioned in my initial post the fittings are what bothered me.

 

The thing for me was the fact that the actual details to the obverse of the wing looked sharp and of the right quality. This bugged me so much that I sent a PM to Jim asking about the fittings to see if maybe they were replaced and now if appears Jim has confirmed this.

 

I am looking forward to additional comments after the hands on inspection Jim spoke of.

 

Cheers

John

[pfrost]

Backs

 

I think the wing with the "non-traditional" hardware has been repaired based on what I can see.

 

OPPs I see that it was confirmed already that the wings have a repair.

 

As I said, I have seen this variation in a couple or three places and having handled the "cross hatched" and the other "lined" version, I think that both are exactly correct. Just a variation in the dies used by LGB. As Russ points out, even the same lined version has a version with a cut out and non-cut out shoulder.

 

Sometimes I think that a firm like LGB gets to much credit for making "jewelry quality" products by us collectors, and as such we are too quick to toss out what we think are "flaws" in a wing. They were mass producing military insignia, not handcrafting diamond rings for Royalty. As such, while the quality and standards were obviously higher than some other companies, expecting that every LGB be near perfect is a bit much to expect, I fear. For example (and ironically) one of the above examples has an LGB hallmark that has a double strike (but is deemed to be exactly correct for the the period) while the other LGB hallmark is cleaner, but it felt to be non-typical.

 

Finally, hey Russ, way to take a stand on both sides of the issue! You have a career in politics.

[armillary_journey]

I believe that this is an example of a WW2 era stippled wing that Russ and Patrick are talking about. This isn't in my personal collection so I can't take better pictures than the ones shown on my site. Click here to view the wing.

 

 

Mr. Schwartz

 

The stipling you are showing on this wing seems much more even in elevation, and disbursement across the shield, does/would that make a difference if you were in a buy no buy situation, no matter if the wing may be authentic or not? I guess to say if you needed a service pilot, were shopping for one, would that stop you on a buy, the uneven stipling? Thanks

 

Journey

[Sjef]

....anytime you see a Balfour look for a crisp quality hallmark, and, the wing I was looking at looked just like this hallmark, he told me don't buy, or really use caution about buying a Balfour wing if the hallmark is far from the sterling mark, and off, or much off center is not a plus either.....

 

I am not sure that I understand your words correctly Journey (I am not a native speaker). By crisp do you mean crumbly or quite the opposite, i.e. nice and delicate?

 

The hallmarks on Russ's wings and on the wing on Bob's website don't look particularly delicate to me.

That would make sense of course if that is what you mean.

 

 

Cheers!!