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M1967 Nylon Butt Packs and later versions


craig_pickrall

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What is the purpose of the soft-side velcro on the bedroll carrier?

 

the M67 bedroll carrier is one of the easyiest to find M67 system pieces - it seems that many thousands have been produced...

 

there are all over the place...you can find them even here in greece...an army that never used the M67 system!!!

they came in as commercial imports probably... think.gif

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Can you post a link to the site you mention?

oopsss...the given link does'nt work....so...just try & type THE VIETNAM DATABASE & you gonna get it on top of the page

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Craig_pickrall: Well and when You got the buttpack where there any mark, or was markless yet?

About complete gear M1967, youre absolutly right. You can find piece of M67, but not complete. But you can find everithing exept buttpack. Or anyone know about of such photo?

 

Coolman & atb: This tipe of buttpack is I was talking about. In my opinion this buttpack was probably made from marine USMC M1967 field pack? Minimaly suspiciously similarl mark as marine ruck and USMC mark for army equipment is verry strange.

 

Here is fragment of Vietnam database with M1967 buttpack...

Vietnam database

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Craig_pickrall: Well and when You got the buttpack where there any mark, or was markless yet?

About complete gear M1967, youre absolutly right. You can find piece of M67, but not complete. But you can find everithing exept buttpack. Or anyone know about of such photo?

 

Coolman & atb: This tipe of buttpack is I was talking about. In my opinion this buttpack was probably made from marine USMC M1967 field pack? Minimaly suspiciously similarl mark as marine ruck and USMC mark for army equipment is verry strange.

 

Here is fragment of Vietnam database with M1967 buttpack...

Vietnam database

 

Arnie101 the early 70s is a transitional period for the marine corps uniforms & equipments...you can see pictures of marines from 1970 until about 1976-77 & you cannot believe how many different modern & obsolete...standard & non standard...marine & non marine items pressed in marine use just within this 6 or 7 years period...yes...that M67 back pack witch is normaly an army piece it is possible to be a marine semi standard limited production also...

 

right after the bitter nam experiance the marines & the army in general were in the darkest days of the modern american history...low morale...limited acceptability of the army by the american society...the liberals & the hippys had the upper hand...so i dont think the standarization of the marines equipments at that time was a high priority...they were just trying to recover & to make a capable fighting force again in the then new all profesional army & bring new recruits to the corps...so we cannot talk about standarisation during those days...they had marine items..they had army items...the had anything they could get in hands

 

the M41 pack was obsolete for the early 70s...the late 60s nylon M41 version was right the same obsolete design...the Modern M67 marine nylon system never adopted & never became standard...i dont know whats the problem with this pack & suspenders...looks to me as a very modern & smart design but never adopted...the ALICE pack came very later in about 1974-75...so...all they had to do for the year 1970 was to adopt the army M67 butt pack...is a parallel Army/Marine contract & its marked as such...

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an other guess is... that M67 butt pack adopted as a lighter alternative to the Marine M67 nylon pack system...it is absolutely compatible...if you look at the M67 back pack you can see that is a fairly big pack for close combat...it is a near rucksack acctually..a butt pack is preffered for light combat order...if my guess is right then the USMC marked butt pack can be considered as a regular part of the marines M67 nylon semi-experimental pack system...

 

unfortunately very little info is available about marine M67 nylon system....no details of its development..no pictures of its combat service or training use...nothing...so we can only guess...it seems as a system that abandoned right after its production of some few thousand pieces...& put in long storage or sold as surplus... crying.gifthink.gifermm.gif

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These are the only pictures I've ever found of the USMC M1967 gear. From the June 1971 Leatherneck magazine.

Tim

post-192-1217857108.jpg

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Coolman: Yes, youre right, M67 buttpack was probably a part a marine semi standard limited production. I wrote muse, wiev from army compability standard of M1967 about buttpack.

 

About you written priority of standartization equipments USMC or Army, I think, these all conditions affected soldiers in the field and served in war machine. But the highest command and planners had clear idea of standartization and development equipments and was farther than war in nam. Its my opinion.

 

Is it strange that such USMC M67 field pack is good documented and is possible to buy it, but buttpack (which could be similary produced as filed pack i think...) is impossible find any exact information or find some piece of that.

 

Keystone: Nice pictures, pity small and incomplete pages ;)

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okay

now with the good pictures of keystone we know that the but pack is the lower part of the limited standard marines nylon M67 system...we can see it clearly just below the M67 backpack so my guess proved correct:thumbsup:

the system as an idea is good...you carrying both packs & in the combat you drop the large backpack & you only keep the butt pack for better manouverability thumbsup.gif

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Coolman: Yes, youre right, M67 buttpack was probably a part a marine semi standard limited production. I wrote muse, wiev from army compability standard of M1967 about buttpack.

 

About you written priority of standartization equipments USMC or Army, I think, these all conditions affected soldiers in the field and served in war machine. But the highest command and planners had clear idea of standartization and development equipments and was farther than war in nam. Its my opinion.

 

Is it strange that such USMC M67 field pack is good documented and is possible to buy it, but buttpack (which could be similary produced as filed pack i think...) is impossible find any exact information or find some piece of that.

 

Keystone: Nice pictures, pity small and incomplete pages ;)

yes it is part of the M67 system indeed...you can see it clearly right below the backpack...i maded an other observation also...to the USMC M67 suspenders there are no Drings for the ancorage of the ammo pouches strap hooks...so the socalled "NAVY M14 AMMO POCKETS" are not navy at all...they are the proper pouches for the USMC M67 system as they dont have straps & hooks & i think theseare the pouches on the keystones pictures

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Yes, the pack from Vietnam database with USMC mark seems like part aome USMC experimental system. Difficulty exact identify system because of makring all nylon equipments were M1967. Difficulty tell how many pieces have been made (probably couple hundred if so) and which parts have been tested in nam. In my opinion such parts as buttpack haven't seen nam same as ammo pouch used on keysotne photo. Name "NAVY M14 AMMO POCKETS" i read the first time. I know it as M1967 20rd M14 / M16 Magazine Pouch.

Well its about USMC system and what about ARMY classic M1967? Used same buttpack? I think there were little bit differencies but no informations. Probably this part of equipments was same uncommon as USMC pack. But no photo, no information. Can anybody help?

 

I try show as pictures caled USMC lightweight M1967 Load Caring System.

 

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post-3788-1217936199.jpg

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Arnie the Army M67 system is not as experimental nor as unexplored like the USMC M67 system...is a well known system produced in big quantities & have seen alot of used during late 60s early 70s in nam...even the rare today Army M67 butt pack i think have seen use in nam & i think back in those days was'nt as rare as it is today...the question why this pack is rare today????? why the few you can find around are allways in horrible condition???well...i dont know...this is not a normal phenomenon...we can find all the other parts of the M67 system in quantity & most of the times in brand new condition...!!! think.gif well an explaination can be ...these packs being almost identical to the later ALICE butt pack pressed in the ALICE system during the 70s & 80s & quickly faded out...thats why we cannot find them any more...just a guess

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Yea, ARMY M67 system was common in Nam, but as You told, complete havent been used. It was probably for reason that M1967 MLCE was not designed as full complete replacement M1956/61. Every part of M67 was itroduced separately. From this reason some part was never used (or not widely) as silon not colapsible entrenching tool cover or buttpack.

I found little information about pack in mr. Statnons book Uniforms of the Vietnam War about twoo tipes of pack. First developed version was silon tipe of M61 model and second after 1970 was upgraded model with D rings for suspension and straps was extensioned for prevent handle ripp off. But still it was in experimental level.

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I was searched FSN Army M67 butt pack, but I found only note in TM 10-276 Hot Weather Clothing and Equipment. There are some poor photos and info about "Field pack canvas: combat" with FSN: 8465-577-4921 which is no. of M1656 buttpack.

Does anyone have any idea or better info? think.gif

 

Craig_pickrall: When You got the buttpack, were there any mark, or was markless yet?

Thanks for help.

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craig_pickrall

The butt pack is to washed out to have any readable labels.

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  • 3 months later...
316th FS 324th FG

Any thoughts on this pack? Looks like the late 70's version Craig posted to my eye, but no eyelets along the left hand edge. No internal markings except a 2 inside a circel. The US on the front flap is very faint.

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craig_pickrall

I think that is one of the training packs. I'm not sure of a date or when they dropped the grommets along the flap edge. Does it have the velcro straps on the back just below the nylon straps?

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316th FS 324th FG
I think that is one of the training packs. I'm not sure of a date or when they dropped the grommets along the flap edge. Does it have the velcro straps on the back just below the nylon straps?

 

Here is the bottom. The only velcro on it is next to the nylon straps on the back, just below the metal attchments for the pistol belt. You can also see it in the bottom right of this pic, just next to the camera strap.

post-2463-1229024736.jpg

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craig_pickrall

That is the velcro I was asking about. I couldn't see it in your other pics.

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316th FS 324th FG
That is the velcro I was asking about. I couldn't see it in your other pics.

 

Thanks Craig, so what does a training pack mean and, is this 70's you think?

 

D

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craig_pickrall

It is a training pack and would have been made 1976 or later I think. The TP was used in basic training but wasn't an issue item to people equiped with an ALICE pack. In real life however there were many troops that used the butt pack along with the ALICE pack.

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I think that is one of the training packs. I'm not sure of a date or when they dropped the grommets along the flap edge. Does it have the velcro straps on the back just below the nylon straps?

 

 

I have a Pack, Training with the eyelets on the edge of the flap that's dated 1981. My "late 80's" version (1989, I think - it's been a while since I've pulled them out) does not have the eyelets. So, my guess on this one is that it was made after 1980.

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  • 2 months later...
bent barrel
Typical early 1970's version found in surplus stores

 

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Craig-

I have one of these in my collection, mint condition, but totally unmarked, inside or out. Was this a military issue or an after-market item? the workmanship is excellent except that the strap ends are cut straight across, rather than the usual slant cut. It'll do as a placeholder until the real thing comes along, in any event. Thanks.

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craig_pickrall

BB, it is a private purchase item sold thru surplus stores. It is not up to gov't spec and is not an issue item.

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