Desert Camo Question?

[SARGE]

Gentlemen,

 

I have a question about desert camouflage. When was this three color camo pattern adopted? I believe it replaced the "chocolate chip" camouflage pattern but I do not know when.

 

 

Here is a view of the nomenclature tag on the desert camo coat. Is there a pattern date or a contract date hidden here somewhere?

 

 

View of the size tag in the neck. How about a pattern date in this number?

 

[ehrentitle]

This version of Uniform, Battledress, Desert has been around since at least early 1995. I have a Soldier Systems Command publication, Items of Combat Clothing and Equipment dated Feb 95 showing this uniform. Kevin

[sigma9r]

These were all over the place in Kuwait, mostly Air Force. They are still authorized, don't kno when the wear out date is. Many soldiers in the command center and other parts of CFLCC wore them on "casual Friday"! Have to have something to break up the weeks.

[craig_pickrall]

Does the USAF use a digital camo pattern at all? I thought they were still using this pattern. My son in law is in the AF. He returned from Iraq in FEB and this was the uniform he used the entire time. He was on convoy security then. He just returned to Iraq, arriving last Monday. He has not sent any pics yet so I'm not sure what he is wearing this tour. He has received a promotion since last tour and was expecting a senior NCO office slot this time around. I think the AF has turned the convoy security back over to the Army anyway.

 

On the first label shown I think I see a 97 tucked in but it is hard to read.

[Nkomo]

Adopted I'm not 100% sure on the answer to that question, but I've seen (maybe even have one laying around here somewhere) some that were dated 1990 or 1991. That is early and I don't know if they were ever issued during Desert Storm I. I've always heard right after DS I was over, they started issuing them. Don't take that as gospel or anything. I'll look around the house and see if I can find one of the early dated pieces.

Arch

[Patrick.]

Does the USAF use a digital camo pattern at all?

 

Hello Craig,

 

here is a link you may find interesting, it relates to the new digital tiger stripe the USAF is adopting.

 

 

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123017545

 

 

 

Patrick.

[GIl Sanow]

Adopted I'm not 100% sure on the answer to that question, but I've seen (maybe even have one laying around here somewhere) some that were dated 1990 or 1991. That is early and I don't know if they were ever issued during Desert Storm I. I've always heard right after DS I was over, they started issuing them. Don't take that as gospel or anything. I'll look around the house and see if I can find one of the early dated pieces.

Arch

 

I would have to say '91 for earliest issue of 3-color desert. I have an attributed shirt worn by a Reserve BG during Desert Storm -- on the other hand, he was in logistics and may have had some choice in what he wore.

 

It seems to me that at the time I read that the old 6-color "chocolate chip" was tested in Arizona and Egypt, but that it proved poor camo for the Arabian Desert, thus the change after they made hundreds of thousands. I suspect this is one reason GI's were allowed to bring a set home in '91 -- to get rid of them!

 

G

[Cpl Punishment]

I agree, it looks like a 1997 date. I was in the Marines during Desert Storm and I remember seeing a few Army guys wearing that pattern. Desert Cammies were in short supply and I was only issued one set. I wore green a lot over there.

[Laury Allison]

From the stock number, I would date this one as 2001. This pattern was developed as I recall shortly after Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm and replaced the "chocolate chip" pattern....probably early to mid-1990's.

 

I think I have a pair of these that a buddy of mine sent me in 1992 from Saudi Arabia and I'm thinking they are the 3 color pattern. I remember expecting to get the "chocolate chip" pattern ones and then getting these. If I can find them, I will check the date on them. I also remember them still having sand in the cargo pockets of the pants.

 

I was issued this pattern DCUs in 2001 for Operation Roving Sands. I was deployed to New Mexico at the White Sands Missile Range. We were on top of a peak and could see Trinity Site (where the first nuclear bomb was detinated) from where we were set up. The elevation was 8000 feet and view was spectacular. Anyway, I was issued 3 sets of DCUs and a Field Jacket, plus 2 patrol caps and I think a boonie cap. I got stripes, name tapes, squadron patches, skill badges, etc., sewn on them. Cost me about $65.00 - $70.00. Then right before I deployed, they sent out a message that those of us in New Mexico weren't in desert conditions and were the wear woodland pattern BDUs. The guys that went to Fort Bliss Texas wore DCUs. Obviously, whoever decided that have never been on the White Sands Missile Range....as it was definately desert conditions.

 

It was a little spooky at night out there...you could see lights in places that you didn't even know anything was there. We were so high up that jets would fly over us and then drop down in the valley and "play". You could also see weather forming below us. I remember one night a helicopter almost landed on top of us. They had seen our lights on our comm antennas and thought we were the helipad he was looking for.

 

We operated completely on generator power. There was a building (no idea what was in it) on the site that was on commercial power with backup generators. One night, the commercial power failed and their generators kicked in. When that happened it sounded just like our deuce and a halfs were driving down the hill. We ran outside our tent with flashlights and counted vehicles.

 

It was a very interesting deployment and I would love to do that one again. But I have several sets of these (somewhere), that I never got to wear.

 

When I retired, I expected to have to turn these uniforms back in, but I had been deployed from my squadron for 2 1/2 years. When I got back to my squadron, they couldn't find my clothing record...or my gas mask, chemical gear, TA-50 gear, kevlar, and a lot of other stuff that had been left there. The bottom line was that since they couldn't find my clothing record, they had no choice but to sign me off on it. I was prepared to come unglued and put both boots up somebody's backside if they didn't. I wasn't about to pay a ton of money for a bunch or Army gear that I didn't need for the deployment I was on and had left in my office. My supervisor knew it was there and said they would take care of it. The down side was that by the time I got back, the supervisor had left (that's another story) and everybody left there knew nothing about it (or at least denied knowledge about it). It worked out OK in the end and I didn't have to turn anything in....would have gotten some more stuff if I had known that was going to happen....My "C" bag had a mint 1967 dated E-Tool in it....didn't ever get a chance to swap that one out.

 

Laury

[VMI88]

The three color desert pattern was around for the 89-90 Gulf War, though the six color pattern was more common. I'm pretty sure I remember Schwarzkopf wearing a three color Goretex jacket (probably private purchase, but still ilusrating that the pattern was around).

 

Lots of guys were never issued a desert uniform of any type until it was time for the victory parades back home.

 

Bill

[Laury Allison]

BTW...it hasn't been Air Police in many, many years. It became Security Police many years ago (sometime in the early 1970s) and then changed to Security Forces (in the mid 1990s).

 

Laury

[craig_pickrall]

During GW1 most of the staff (REMF) were wearing the 3 color uniforms at press briefings and other appearances. They had the latest boots too with the cushion top. The men in the field were in the chocolate chips. Most had the nylon green Jungle Boots rather than the new Desert Boots.

[SARGE]

Gents,

 

Thank you for the information. I am glad that I am not the only one who can't seem to pin down the pattern date on this uniform.

 

Laury,

 

Thank you for your correction on my slip of the lip by calling this outfit "Air Police."

 

[gwb123]

Not to nit pick, but...

 

This item was issued in 1997. That is the date that is shown on the number series on the "care" tag, the one with the laundry instructions.

 

This number is the "contract number". This changes depending on who manufactured the item and on what date.

 

The stock number identifies a specific item in the National Supply System, and this does not change. It is tied to a specification that defines the part, object or item down to exteme detail.

 

The "01" in the National Stock Number (NSN) is the country of origin code. "00" and "01" indicate manufacture in the USA.

 

I looked all over the internet for a break down of the NSN and was suprised I could not find a DoD source showing it. However I found this:

 

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_nsn_explanation.php

 

"Structure of the National Stock Number (NSN)

The configuration of the NSN is a 13-digit number, as the examples above show. It is composed of these overlapping sub-groups:

 

Federal Supply Group (FSG): Positions 1-2

Federal Supply Class (FSC): Positions 1-4

NATO Country Code: Positions 5-6

National Item Identification Number (NIIN): Positions 5-13

Serial Number: Positions 7-13

The first two digit positions identify the Federal Supply Group (FSG), the broad category in which the item belongs. For the HMMWV or M-151A2, the FSG is 23, defined as:

 

FSG 23: Ground Effect Vehicles, Motor Vehicles, Trailers, and Cycles

The FSG is followed by two additional positions which together with the FSG form the four position Federal Supply Class (FSC). The FSC narrows the category down to something more specific. In the case of the HMMWV or M-151A2, the FSC is 2320, defined as:

 

FSC 2320: Trucks and Truck Tractors, Wheeled

The last 9 positions (e.g. 01-371-9577) are the National Item Identification Number (NIIN) and identify the specific item. The first two positions of the NIIN identify the NATO country code for the country making the number assignment. The codes 00 and 01 are used by the United States. The last seven digits of the NIIN are the item serial number. The serial number does not follow an assignment pattern as the FSG, FSC and country code do; it is merely a number chosen for the item.

 

When the FSN was converted to the NSN in 1975, existing FSNs were typically changed over by simply adding "00" between the FSC and the serial number. For example, "First Aid Kit, General Purpose, Rigid Case", FSN 6545-922-1200, was changed to NSN 6545-00-922-1200."

 

Hope this helps!

[SARGE]

Gil,

 

Thanks for the "nit picky" information. The devil is in the details and 1997 issue seems to be the answer for this particular camo coat.

 

Now, are we fairly certain that 1990-91 is probably about the earliest date for this camo pattern?

[USMCRECON]

Gentlemen,

 

I have a question about desert camouflage. When was this three color camo pattern adopted? I believe it replaced the "chocolate chip" camouflage pattern but I do not know when.

 

 

Here is a view of the nomenclature tag on the desert camo coat. Is there a pattern date or a contract date hidden here somewhere?

 

 

View of the size tag in the neck. How about a pattern date in this number?

 

 

I believe the "coffee stain" pattern began to appear in reasonably large numbers soon after the Gulf War. When I deployed to the Gulf with Special Operations Command in early Aug 90, I was issued three sets of the 5-color "chocolate chips" pattern DCUs and a blocky-pattern 2-tone green "night parka." Around Nov-Dec of 90, the night parka was replaced with a Gor-tex hooded jacket and it was in the then brand new 3-color coffee stain pattern (these were not available to regular units yet at that time - I was offered $200.00 for mine while I was at 1st MEF in Jan 1991 as one of the SOCCENT liaison officers) and we wore it with the chocolate chips DCUs.

 

By the time I retuned and was reassigned to USCENTAF in the fall of 1991, the coffee stain pattern was the only one being issued but you could still see people, including me, wearing the older chocolate chips. At that point, the lighter 3-color rip-stop material was not readily available but, by about 1993, it was being issued to people reporting in for duty in Saudi Arabia but not in ConUS (I got my first two sets of the 3-color rip-stops in Kuwait in about Jul 1993). At some time thereafter, the rip-stop material coffee stain pattern was available almost everywhere.

[craig_pickrall]

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=9582

 

Follow the link for a similar shirt from the Vietnam era.

[SARGE]

Bill,

 

Thanks for the timeline of issue from your experience. That is helpful. It seems that 1990 is going to be the approximate date of adoption/issue for the three color camo then.

[Russell 1910]

Hello. Not sure how much I can add to this discussion but thought I would post a few photos of the earliest dated 3 color desert jackets that I have. Both have contract numbers with 1990 dates in them. One was worn by a Naval Officer, the other a 4thID soldier.

 

These both seem to be the "1st pattern" in that they are not rip-stop, they have the small cuffs with small attached cuff adjustment tabs (like the chocolate chip coats) and they lack the extra reinforcement material on the elbows.

 

 

[Russell 1910]

[Russell 1910]

Tag from Navy coat

 

Sorry the photo is poor partially due to the laundry fuzz.

 

 

[Russell 1910]

[craig_pickrall]

I have a Field Jacket dated 1989 but all of my shirts are dated 1990 except one that is 1991. I did not try to check the trousers.

[SARGE]

Craig,

 

If you have one of the three color camo field jackets dated '89 perhaps the pattern was actually adopted in 1989 and did not get into any real production until 1990? I presume your '89 dated garment does not have an experimental or trials tag?

 

Russell 1910,

 

Good information on your two '90 dated coats as well. We are narrowing the time line down.

[craig_pickrall]

The 89 dated FJ is an issue item. A friend of mine was in the 82nd ABN at the time. He was on his way into a surplus store at Bragg just as another GI came up with the jacket. My buddy asked to see it as he had not seen that camo pattern at the time. In talking he found out the other GI had "found" the jacket and was going to sell it at the store. My buddy shot him a price and the GI agreed. My buddy bought it with me in mind as he did not collect that sort of thing. It is in new condition with no patches, name tapes, etc.