CV-42 USS Franklin D. Roosevelt

[kfields]

Today I bought this rather large 10x12 photo of the USS Franklin D. Roosevelt. It's absolutely loaded with aircraft! There is no information on the front or reverse to explain where, when or why. Are there any observations you folks can make about when the photo was taken and possibly where? What circumstances would explain why so many planes are on the runway?

Thanks!

Kim

[jcbenware]

http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/images/cv42fdr.jpg shows a similar picture. In your picture the ship appears to be at anchor, maybe in a foreign port showing off the airplanes.

[keithhufnagel]

Time frame must late or early post WWII for she is still carrying 20 and 40MM guns. Planes are also late/early post war Corsairs, Hellcats and what looks like Avengers. Sternmost aircraft could be Helldivers or Skyraiders, can't really tell for sure. Hellcats and Helldivers didn't stay around long after the War, so I would guess 1947 or 1948. Hope this helps.

[sigsaye]

I aggree that it is very early in it's life, as the 20 and 40 mm guns were removed shortly after commissioning since they were no longer needed. Again, the aircraft and the paint scheams on them indicate very early in the ships life.

 

Steve

[kfields]

Thanks guys!

I'll add a note to keep with the photo.

 

Kim

[steyrlifer]

The photos are post WW2, the late 40's prior to the Korean War. Blue F6F's, F4U's, an AD on the fantail and no jets are the giveaways.

 

CVA-42, the "Rosey Boat" was my first ship. I was an Aviation Ordnanceman Second Class in Fighter Squadron 84 and Fighter Squadron 41 operating F-4J Phantoms. By this time, the early 70's, Rosey was really showing her age. I'm 6'4". The ship was so small, the only places I could stand fully stand upright were in the hanger bay and on the flight deck. Along side other carriers we had to look up to their flight deck level. Everything was worn out. But we still made it work. We were sailors. That's what we did. On one Med deployment we managed to bend a prop shaft and the whole ship vibrated really badly when we were trying to make enough wind over the deck to launch and recover those big, heavy assed F-4's. We still out-performed the new carriers! My longest sea deployment in my 25 years in the Navy was on Rosey, 11 months. That's a really, really long time...for a new ship, much less an antique. Rosey was sold for scrap in the late 70's.

[sigsaye]

The photos are post WW2, the late 40's prior to the Korean War. Blue F6F's, F4U's, an AD on the fantail and no jets are the giveaways.

 

CVA-42, the "Rosey Boat" was my first ship. I was an Aviation Ordnanceman Second Class in Fighter Squadron 84 and Fighter Squadron 41 operating F-4J Phantoms. By this time, the early 70's, Rosey was really showing her age. I'm 6'4". The ship was so small, the only places I could stand fully stand upright were in the hanger bay and on the flight deck. Along side other carriers we had to look up to their flight deck level. Everything was worn out. But we still made it work. We were sailors. That's what we did. On one Med deployment we managed to bend a prop shaft and the whole ship vibrated really badly when we were trying to make enough wind over the deck to launch and recover those big, heavy assed F-4's. We still out-performed the new carriers! My longest sea deployment in my 25 years in the Navy was on Rosey, 11 months. That's a really, really long time...for a new ship, much less an antique. Rosey was sold for scrap in the late 70's.

And one of her flag bags was installed on the Kennedy after they burned one up

 

Steve Hesson

[steyrlifer]

Now this is just getting weird! JFK was my last ship! "Slack Jack" was carrier #7 for me.

[sigsaye]

Now this is just getting weird! JFK was my last ship! "Slack Jack" was carrier #7 for me.

Well, there ya go, last ship had parts of your first ship, small world indeed. I was never on either, Kitty Hawk was my first ship and only carrier. Over the years, I had several SMs work with me who had been on the JFK. The first one in the early 70s told me how when he was on the JFK, they were storing paint thinner and such in the flag bags (very bad :thumbdown: ). Some how, a cigarett went into the bag, the flags started burning, andthen all the flamabel liqueds went up. When they got inot port, they went over to where Rossie was being scrapped and got one of her flag bags and installed it in place of their burned up one. Needless to say, stowing anything in a flag bag other than flags is an A$$ Kicking offense.

 

BTW, they all said that "USS JFK" stood for "Underway Saturday and Sunday Just For Kicks".

 

Steve Hesson

[steyrlifer]

Saturday and Sunday, my aching a$$! You Blackhoes need to be more respectful in the presence of an Airdale.

 

For what it's worth, I had my second longest deployment on JFK at 9 months during Desert Shield/Desert Storm. Where, by the way, we delivered 25% of ALL the ordnance all of the participating carriers the Navy had over there. No aircraft lost, no personnel lost, no duds, no hung ordnance!!! We literally ran out of targets. I had the honor of being the G-3 Weapons Assembly Officer for that little get-together. But geting back to the original thread, I have to give credit to FDR laying the groundwork for what I became in my later naval years.

[1944]

Thats a great looking Photo you have got there Intresting :thumbsup:

[sigsaye]

Saturday and Sunday, my aching a$$! You Blackhoes need to be more respectful in the presence of an Airdale.

 

For what it's worth, I had my second longest deployment on JFK at 9 months during Desert Shield/Desert Storm. Where, by the way, we delivered 25% of ALL the ordnance all of the participating carriers the Navy had over there. No aircraft lost, no personnel lost, no duds, no hung ordnance!!! We literally ran out of targets. I had the honor of being the G-3 Weapons Assembly Officer for that little get-together. But geting back to the original thread, I have to give credit to FDR laying the groundwork for what I became in my later naval years.

They were on "Big John" in the mid/late '70s, like I said, I was never on her. My longest was a cruise on the Hawk, 15 months with a 110 day stretch at sea. I was in Ground support back in those days, Flight Deck trouble shooter for GSE, so I know of what you speak Sir.

 

Any way, this thread is supposed to be about the Rossie. I like the way she looked in her younger days. To me, they were the most "Fearsome" looking of the carriers. They just had the look that they were built to fight, packed with planes and covered in guns. I operated with Coral Sea and Midway over the years, but never Rossie as in my younger days I was a West Coast Sailor.

 

Steve Hesson

[kfields]

I was curious about what the Navy did with the obsolete equipment that came off aircraft carriers as they were refitted during their lifetime. As an example, all the guns shown on this ship along the side. I assume much of these type guns were no longer needed for the type wars these carriers were envisioned to fight post-WWII. Did they pull the guns and put them on other ships where they still utilized them or were they mothballed for some potential future event or were they sold to other Navy's or were they immediately scrapped?

Which brings up another question. Does the Navy still have a "boneyard" of mothballed ships ready to be put in service at a moments notice?

If they do, what types of ships are mothballed?

 

Kim

[Salvage Sailor]

Not at a moments notice, but there are two (2) distinctly different reserve fleets maintained for the USN

 

The first is the Naval Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility (NISMF)

 

These are mainly late model warships and support vessels. The full inventory and and their locations are listed in the Wikipedia posting.

 

NISMF

 

The second is the National Defense Reserve Fleet (NDRF) maintained by MARAD

 

NDRF

 

One of the ships I served upon, commissioned in 1944, is still afloat in the Suisun Bay inventory.

[kfields]

Thank you for the response!

 

Kim

[sigsaye]

Thank you for the response!

 

Kim

When it's bits and pieces like weapon systems, they are treated a bit differently than whole ships. Using the AA guns of CV-42. All weapons go to Mechanicsburd Indiana to the Naval Ordenance Depot. If the system is still in use, it may be overhauled for reissue and instalation on another ship. If the system is obsolete, it may be overhauled and coated or shrink wrapped depending on its condition. Or it may be broken down into its componet parts. Many of these weapons are still used by others besides the Navy, for example the CG continued to use the 40mm and 20mm guns for awhile after the Navy dropped them. Also, many forign Navys continue to use our older ships and systems. The ROK, up into the '80 were still using the Gerring class DDs with their 40mm and 20mm guns and depth charges as their enemy (DRK) had nothing that required more modern weapons.

 

Additionally, It sometimes takes years to complete the removal of systems from the fleet. These sorts of changes generally happen during a large overhaul which only happens every 3-5 years. I served on a DDG that was the last one of a class of 24 to still have a certain missile system on it. We just kept getting the overhaul pushed back so the ship alt never happened. The missile techs were having to get repair parts from Radio Shack since there simply were none left in the system. Some times the system becomes canabalistic. The old Amphibe were all originally equipped with 4-6 3inch 50cal. twin mounts. These guns were obsolete when designed (WW2), but wqere what was available. They could also delives some NGFS to Marines. Any way, eventually, each ship gave up half of its guns to provide repair parts for the rest while enough CIWS and other newer systems came on line and were installed.

 

If it is simply too old with no further use, it is scrapped. This is how it goes with all the systems on a ship. One of the things we looked forward to during the '70s was Decommissionings. They would open the ship up and we could gather up the consumables. In those days, funding was pretty slim, so we baasicaly picked over the carcass' of dying ships. And don't even leave a foul weather jacket laying around. We would also carry off helmets, gass masks, life jackets, whatever we could. Take it all back to our ship and canabalize that stuff and make fully functional units from the bits.

 

Steve Hesson

[kfields]

Thanks Steve...a very informative response.

So when I'm stuck at a RR crossing in the middle of Ohio and see an odd piece of Naval military equipment tied down on a flat bed train car, then there's a possibility it may be heading towards that depot you mentioned!

 

Kim

[sigsaye]

Thanks Steve...a very informative response.

So when I'm stuck at a RR crossing in the middle of Ohio and see an odd piece of Naval military equipment tied down on a flat bed train car, then there's a possibility it may be heading towards that depot you mentioned!

 

Kim

If it is a weapon. Different systems go to different places. Missiles and torpedos have different depost for repair, electronics have a home some where, and all the small bits could be going any where, depending on what their fate is. Lots of old guns are loaned out for display. Interesting fact about that. Even though they are completely obsolete and would/could never work again, they are still the property of the USN and Naval Weapons Depot. When I was the 1st LT for Atlantic Fleet HQ (Facilities Manager), I had two Brass Cannons. They had originally been cast in 1757, in Spain (beutiful guns with cast dragons and porposis on them along with the royal cyphers). They had been captured at Cavite Philipeenes during the Span-Am War. Being brass, they were greeen with virtigris. Some Admiral wanted them shined (I had 32 Admirals, and 1 each Army, USMC and AF general along with 9 forign flags attached to the NATO staff :pinch: ) Being a Signalman I knew that if you shined these things, the engraving would be worn off. Plus the virtigris protected them from further corrosin from, like gull guano and such. Plus, I hated to think of the waste of man hours in shining old cannons. Any way, I found the custudy cards (dated 1940) which specifically stated "NO POLOSHING", and that the guns wer the property of the Weps Depot and to contact some long retired/dead official if there was a problem. I of course had to play the game and run all this up that chain. The ADM had completely forgotten he had said anything. Probebly mentioned it in passing that the guns would look better polished or something, and a "Strap Hanger" took that as a action item to "Get It Done". Basically, I spent a day saving my crew from hours of pointless daily repetitive work because some ADM blurted out a passing thought with some aid in ear shot. Ah yes, the joys of the Peace Time Shore Duty Navy

 

Steve Hesson

[kfields]

Good story and something we all can relate too!

 

Kim

[Salvage Sailor]

If it is simply too old with no further use, it is scrapped. This is how it goes with all the systems on a ship. One of the things we looked forward to during the '70s was Decommissionings. They would open the ship up and we could gather up the consumables. In those days, funding was pretty slim, so we baasicaly picked over the carcass' of dying ships. And don't even leave a foul weather jacket laying around. We would also carry off helmets, gass masks, life jackets, whatever we could. Take it all back to our ship and canabalize that stuff and make fully functional units from the bits.

 

Steve Hesson

 

Ditto what Steve wrote.....

 

Being that our ship was comissioned in 1944, and my second in 1945, serviceable parts were difficult to come by in the 1970's. We would load up a workboat with a compressor, tools & welding torches, head over to inactive ships in Westloch, and then scramble aboard the old ASR's, DDE's, and Minesweepers like pirates with a shopping list and help ourselves to the gear aboard them.

 

Once, to make an ancient HF radio set serviceable for a deployment, we took parts from 3 different units from decommissioned ships. It was the only source of parts and they worked great. One year later during an INSERV inspection, we were ordered to break it up and toss it over the side simply because the serial numbers did not match up & we had not received them through the regular supply channels (uh, because they didn't make them anymore, sir....). Merely another truly stupid paperwork policy in action. Next month, another successful pirate raid and the set was operational again.

[sigsaye]

Ditto what Steve wrote.....

 

Being that our ship was comissioned in 1944, and my second in 1945, serviceable parts were difficult to come by in the 1970's. We would load up a workboat with a compressor, tools & welding torches, head over to inactive ships in Westloch, and then scramble aboard the old ASR's, DDE's, and Minesweepers like pirates with a shopping list and help ourselves to the gear aboard them.

 

Once, to make an ancient HF radio set serviceable for a deployment, we took parts from 3 different units from decommissioned ships. It was the only source of parts and they worked great. One year later during an INSERV inspection, we were ordered to break it up and toss it over the side simply because the serial numbers did not match up & we had not received them through the regular supply channels (uh, because they didn't make them anymore, sir....). Merely another truly stupid paperwork policy in action. Next month, another successful pirate raid and the set was operational again.

We did pretty much the same thing to three old DERs in Long Beach once. They were to be used as targets, so we swarmed them to salvage brass. We took everything we could grab in one day, invluding all three binicals which were solid brass (so as not to interfere with the magnetic compas), yards and yards of voice tube, switch cover plates, light covers, if it was brass, we grabbed it. I still have the lable plate for the Captains Cabin from USS Savage. All in all we grabbed about 7 thousand pounds of scrap brass that we were going to use to get the ship painted in Hong Kong, and have a ships party. Well, we didn't go to HK, so the day before returning to San Diego from that WestPac, we had to toss it all over the side. It had been stashed in the bilge for the cruise. Just a pain in the butt hauling it al up and down the ladders.

 

Steve Hesson

[hink441]

Where, by the way, we delivered 25% of ALL the ordnance all of the participating carriers the Navy had over there. No aircraft lost, no personnel lost, no duds, no hung ordnance!!! We literally ran out of targets.

 

I was an Airdale onboard the Teddy Roosevelt CVN-71 (VA-36) during Desert Storm and I don't think your assertion is completely correct. The JFK was a Red Sea Carrier and as a result flew fewer sorties and delivered less ordnance than the Persian Gulf Carriers. This is because of the distance flown and reliance on AF tankers. The Persian Gulf sorties were more frequent and with larger payloads. We did, however lose some crews and A/C. We also had our share of hung ordnance, we even pickled a few loaded MERs because of hung ordnance. Not trying to start an argument or diminish the Sara's and JFK's important role and contribution to the total success. I listed a reference below, it makes for a good read. Respectfully, Hink.

 

"According to Center for Naval Analyses, ordnance expenditures by the

Persian Gulf carriers averaged about 49 tons per day per carrier

during the entire war. This rate increased to 116 tons per day

during the 4-day ground offensive. Each Red Sea carrier averaged

about 43 tons per day during the war and 59 tons per day during the

ground war. The smaller Red Sea expenditure rates were probably due

to the smaller number of sorties flown as a result of the longer

distances these aircraft had to fly to reach their targets."

[steyrlifer]

Hi HINK441 and hello to a fellow Airdale. I based my ordnance expenditure claim on what was relayed back to us from on high. Could it be we were misinformed? Nah, that never happens in the military.

 

You're right about us having to depend on the Air Force to tank us because of the range involved. The AF tried to cut us out of the picture but they were ordered to learn how to play well with others. The other 2 carriers in the Red Sea Battle Group just couldn't keep up with the pace of the air war and JFK took up that slack and flew the preponderance of the missions. We flew strike missions every single day of the war. We weren't "an average".

 

KFIELDS, there was a question regarding FDR's guns. When I was on board in the early 70's, the configuration seen in the photo's had evolved to four pairs of dual 5" 38's...2 pairs on either side forward and the same aft. I loved to watch (and hear!) them shoot. By the 70's there were no 40mm's, 20mm's or 50 cal. machine guns.

[bronxboymike]

A couple of photos of the FDR on her 1952 Med Cruise.

Mike

 

[bronxboymike]

Barrier crash of an AD-4Q of VC-33 flown by ENS. E.P. Lyess Nov 26, 1952